[arin-ppml] Micfo

[Mark Andrews]

> On 16 May 2019, at 10:16 am, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
> 
>> Firstly, I'd like to just remind Owen that this was *not* an issue
>> that I unilaterally raised.  David Farmer expressed the concern.
>> and I merely echoed and expanded upon his posting.
>> 
>> If Owen and a majority of others think that the status quo is just fine
>> and that it is none of ARIN's business to be concerned with such things,
>> then I have a couple of responses:
>> 
>>   *)  Don't tell me.  Tell David Farmer.  I'm not the one who brought
>>       it up.
> 
> Well… Yes and no. However, David and I routinely disagree on any
> number of things. We’ve always been able to do it respectfully and
> I consider him a good friend and a valued colleague on the AC.
> 
>>   *)  OK, fine, have it your own way.  If an "innocent" gets caught
>>       and suddenly has no connectivity because his/her/its ISP was
>>       just hit by a tsunami, then fine.  F**k 'em!  Let them eat cake!
>>       As long as it doesn't impact me, then I have no reason to give
>>       a rat's ass.  If everyone else feels that way then I'd be a damn
>>       fool to feel any different.
> 
> There’s a lot of room between this and “ARIN should be responsible
> for DR to cover all the ills that can be loosely connected to address
> policy issues.”
> 
>> As regards to the rest of Owen's points...
>> 
>>    *)  Yes, ICANN is in the enviable position of being able to "turn
>>        off a miscreant reseller of its main commodity,. domain names,
>>        with the flick of a switch, as it were, because it has the keys
>>        to the root zone.  And no, ARIN does not control routers.
>>        But ARIN *does* have direct and complete control over its part
>>        of the in-addr.arpa DNS tree, *and* also the ARIN WHOIS data base,
>>        and it can do whatver it is authorized to do, by the membership,
>>        with those.  So the situateion *is* in fact somewhat analogous.
> 
> Yes, I’ve stated as much. However, unlike ICANN where turning off the
> DNS for a zone really actually hurts, ARIN turning off rDNS is a minor
> Inconvenience at most and changing whois is, in some circumstances,
> more likely to make the registry less useful than to drive behavioral
> changes by those who run routers.

ARIN/RIPE/APNIC/… actually need DNS Hygiene Policies though this thread is not
the place to discuss it.  Even the basics from STD 13 are not being done as
far as I can tell.

>>    *)  Yes, ISPs really are resellers of what ARIN gives them, just as
>>        domain registrars are resellers of the stuff that ICANN gives them.
>>        To claim otherwise is to deny simple factual reality.
> 
> Actually, to claim this is the case is to deny simple factual reality, IMHO.
> 
>> But David Farmer advised caution... as all ARIN members seem to advise all
>> of the time  when it comes to anything novel in the way of policy ideas...
>> lest we unfairly create difficulties for poor widdle "innocents" who have
>> foolishly bought IP addresses from an ISP that takes their money and then
>> disappears in some manner.
> 
> David advocated (and I agree with) caution in the exercise of ARIN’s powers
> to revoke address space. What he didn’t advocate (which is the reductio
> ad absurdum process that you turned that into) was ARIN providing DR
> for one and all victims of same and then feeling free to revoke at will.
> 
>> My point is this:  This community can't have it both ways.  It either *is*
>> seriously concerned with the harm the befalls "innocents" when they buy
>> IP addresses from middlemen who may disappear tomorrow, for whatever
>> reason, or else it isn't.  If it is, then it should get busy making a
>> rational, well-thought-out and compassionate plan for dealing with such
>> "innocents".   Conversely, if the community *doesn't* actually give a rat's
>> ass about the fate of such foolish and uncareful buyers, then David
>> Farmer should retract his advice to proceed with caution, e.g. when it
>> comes to terminating the likes of Micfo and kicking their asses to the
>> curb, expeditiously and with extreme prejuduce.
> 
> I’m surprised that by your age, you still haven’t learned that despite the
> nice clean and convenient resolutions provided by digital, we are actually
> still living in an analog world. The community can be cautious about revocation
> while not shouldering the additional burden of DR for those who are impacted
> by revocations.
> 
> Owen
> 
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-- 
Mark Andrews, ISC
1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742              INTERNET: marka at isc.org