[arin-ppml] prop266 - re-framing the discussion

[Carlos Friaças]

On Thu, 2 May 2019, Scott Leibrand wrote:

> Do you have any reason to believe that ARIN getting involved in real-time notification of BGP hijacking, with or without firmly worded language and with or without an implied threat, will be any more effective than current methods of
> shutting down hijacks once they've started?  My impression is that nearly all hijacks are quickly filtered by transit providers once they're contacted by the legitimate holder of the addresses.

Hi,

However, some hijackers decide to use unallocated space or space which is 
likely to be held by closed companies -- so a contact by the legitimate 
owner becomes highly unlikely.



> IMO "punishment" of those responsible for allowing hijacking seems like something best solved through the legal system, not via extrajudicial penalties and fines imposed by an industry association.  But if we do decide we want ARIN
> to create acceptable standards of conduct with regard to routing, and fine resource holders who violate it, under threat of resource revocation if those fines aren't paid, there will need to be a *lot* of work done to set up such a
> system so that it doesn't risk ARIN picking a legal fight it's going to lose, and putting the entire registry at risk.

I don't really see how the registry is more at risk when the data it 
contains is made irrelevant by some of its members...

About the legal system:
- In how many countries in the ARIN region it is against the law to hijack 
internet prefixes?
- In how many states within the US is against the law to hijack internet 
prefixes?

I actually don't have an answer for any of those two questions above, so 
if anyone has a clue, it will be most appreciated! :-)

If the answer is "zero" to both... then the legal system is not really an 
option. :/


Regards,
Carlos



> -Scott
> 
> On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 1:29 PM Andrew Bagrin <abagrin at omninet.io> wrote:
>       If the hijacking entity is not and ARIN customer, ARIN likely has a relationship with adjacent ASN's that propagate the hijacked BGP routes and can at the very least notify them that they are propagating routes that have
>       been reported as being hijacked. They can further repeat the statement with a firm voice, and add "or else" at the end.
> 
> Add penalties and fines could be a way to reduce prolonged propagation of hijacked routes.
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 10:18 AM Adam Thompson <athompson at merlin.mb.ca> wrote:
>
>       Instead of focusing on whether the current proposal is or isn?t in scope, I suggest we re-cast the discussion as follows:
>
>        
>
>        1. So far, we have unanimous community agreement that BGP hijacking is bad.
>        2. So far, we have broad agreement that ?something ought to be done? about BGP hijacking, although detailed opinions vary significantly.
>        3. So what (else) can ARIN do about it?  (Caveat: the answer ?nothing? is unacceptable to a significant proportion of PPML participants.)
>
>        
>
>       My suggested direction to the AC and/or the board would therefore be:  Find something ARIN can do to help combat the problem (more effectively).  If this requires expanding the scope of ARIN?s operations or policies,
>       bring that back to the membership (possibly via PPML?) with the accompanying financial & legal analysis, as usual.
>
>        
>
>       Now the question becomes: what is the most appropriate mechanism, within ARIN?s existing policies, to bring a request like that to the AC and/or Board?  It seems clear to me that the petition already underway here is
>       not meeting, and will not meet, the needs of the community very well.
>
>        
>
>       -Adam
>
>        
>
>       Adam Thompson
>       Consultant, Infrastructure Services
>       merlin-email-logo
>       100 - 135 Innovation Drive
>       Winnipeg, MB, R3T 6A8
>       (204) 977-6824 or 1-800-430-6404 (MB only)
>       athompson at merlin.mb.ca
>       www.merlin.mb.ca
>
>        
> 
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