[arin-ppml] ARIN-2019-7: Elimination of the Waiting List (was:Re: Looking for final show of support on revised Advisory Council Recommendation Regarding NRPM 4.1.8. Unmet Requests

[Owen DeLong]

+1

Owen


> On Jun 23, 2019, at 04:35 , Joe Provo <ppml at rsuc.gweep.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Strongly oppose.
> 
> We all see things through our own lenses, so I'm not
> suprised by the position of economists. I am troubled
> by some folks using the phrase "distort the market"
> to describe tge normal functioning of the RIR, as if
> there is some form of *primacy* to be placed on the 
> transfer market. We should recall that it
> exists solely as a tool for resource redistribution
> with registry accuracy. It exists to serve us not
> the other way around.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 12:27:15PM -0400, Alyssa Moore wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>> 
>> Trying to do a temperature check here. If you're following this thread,
>> please indicate whether you support or oppose this draft policy.
>> 
>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 11:42 AM David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 2:50 PM Mueller, Milton L <milton at gatech.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> OK, I???ve read it, and here is my reaction:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> This policy requires legal comment. ARIN???s Articles and Bylaws do not
>>>> specifically prohibit ARIN from monetizing returned or revoked resources by
>>>> selling those resources into the transfer market
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> So point #1 is that this proposed policy does not violate any articles or
>>>> bylaws.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Today, ARIN does not financially benefit in any material way from such
>>>> revocations. Adoption of this policy would for the first time allow the
>>>> party in a contested revocation situation to argue that ARIN seeks to
>>>> financially benefit. Avoiding that concern is also significant.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I am totally unimpressed with this argument. If ARIN revokes addresses
>>>> for nonpayment it is financially benefiting from the revocation is it not?
>>>> It is basically taking them back because it is not getting paid.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> If ARIN ???gets paid??? by selling the numbers into the transfer market what
>>>> is the difference exactly?
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Referring to the waiting list policy, the Draft Policy says, "this policy
>>> provides valuable number resources essentially for free".
>>> 
>>> Yes, ARIN currently financially benefits, but currently, that benefit is
>>> at a level of cost recovery, "essentially for free" as stated above.
>>> Whereas, if ARIN were to dispose of resources using the market, the level
>>> of financial benefit is likely to be orders of magnitude larger.
>>> Furthermore, if this wasn't the case, then the impact on the market and the
>>> potential for fraud supposedly created by the waiting list, that the draft
>>> policy proposes to mitigate, wouldn't exist in the first place.
>>> 
>>> In short, "what is the difference", probably, several orders of magnitude
>>> in the level of financial benefit involved. Where the financial motivations
>>> from simple "cost recovery" can probably be summarily dismissed by the
>>> court. Whereas the potential financial motivations, that one might even
>>> call a windfall, from market-based transactions probably at least needs to
>>> be examined and evaluated by the court, and probably wouldn't be summarily
>>> dismissed. The outcome of the two situations might be the same in the end,
>>> but the level of effort involved defending and the level of risk of an
>>> adverse ruling, are not the same at all.
>>> 
>>> More generally, ARIN participating in the market seems distasteful and
>>> counter to its overall mission, but doesn't directly violate its Articles
>>> and Bylaws.
>>> 
>>> That said that doesn't mean ARIN can't implement the policy, but these
>>> risks need to be evaluated when compared to other alternatives being
>>> considered, along with the possible benefits this policy could have as well.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> ===============================================
>>> David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu
>>> Networking & Telecommunication Services
>>> Office of Information Technology
>>> University of Minnesota
>>> 2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815
>>> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
>>> ===============================================
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> 
> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Posted from my personal account - see X-Disclaimer header.
> Joe Provo / Gweep / Earthling 
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