[arin-ppml] Open Petition for ARIN-prop-266: BGP Hijacking is an ARIN Policy Violation

[John Springer]

The question of whether or not the problem statement is clear is not
pertinent to the question of the petition, which is only, at this point,
concerned with scope. Clarity is only pertinent to the AC, if and only if,
the proposal is returned to the AC with a BoT ruling that it is is scope.
And hypothetically, if the AC then finds the problem statement unclear,
they can work with the author to correct. No need to grasp at straws here
to prevent that.

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 1:40 PM Kevin Blumberg <kevinb at thewire.ca> wrote:

> Jordi,
>
>
>
> I do not support the petition as I view the problem statement as invalid.
> The proposal co-mingles contractual obligations, implementation and
> requirements outside of the purview of ARIN.
>
>
>
> The NRPM does not trump the Registration Services Agreement which this
> proposal attempts to override.
>
>
>
> The initiatives that are going on in the operator community, through RPKI
> and IRR filtering has made an impact and should be the primary avenue for
> addressing this issue.
>
>
>
> If there are avenues that could be used within policy, I do not see it in
> the proposal.
>
>
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> *On Behalf Of *JORDI PALET
> MARTINEZ via ARIN-PPML
> *Sent:* Monday, April 29, 2019 3:50 PM
> *To:* Paul Andersen <paul at arin.net>; ARIN-PPML List <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] Open Petition for ARIN-prop-266: BGP Hijacking
> is an ARIN Policy Violation
>
>
>
> Hi Paul,
>
>
>
> I understand that, but I’m not convinced that will be useful because then
> folks regardless in favor or against the policy text, may not yet respond
> to the petition as we get engaged in discussing what is good or bad in the
> text and how sort it out. I’ve seen that already in several messages that
> support/oppose to the proposal when in fact the question is a different one
> (the petition and not actually responding to that).
>
>
>
> My view is that people that will like to get answers and participate in
> the process should first support the petition.
>
>
>
> It is clear that in general in any RIR, it should be possible to speak
> about ideas on policies, but in this case is not anymore “just an idea”, so
> the right way to support it, is to seek the adoption as a draft policy.
>
>
>
> Of course, I may be wrong, but this is my perception right now.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jordi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> El 29/4/19 21:03, "ARIN-PPML en nombre de Paul Andersen" <
> arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net en nombre de paul at arin.net> escribió:
>
>
>
> Jordi,
>
>
>
> A small point on your post below. I read your comment below that you feel
> that discussion of your policy idea is not possible until accepted. This is
> not in fact the case as it relates to PPML. As you can see from the mailing
> list description (posted below) there is no need for a policy idea to have
> a formal number to be discussed. As long as posts fall within the mailing
> list AUP free discussion is encouraged. Historically we even saw many
> policy ideas get early feedback on PPML prior to them becoming formal
> policies.
>
>
>
> So I think continued feedback on your proposal should be encouraged.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> —
>
> Paul Andersen
>
> Chair, ARIN Board of Trustees
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >>>>>
>
> Open to the general public. Provides a forum to raise and discuss
> policy-related ideas and issues surrounding existing and proposed ARIN
> policies. The PPML list is an intrinsic part of ARIN’s Policy Development
> Process, which details how proposed policies are handled.
>
> Discussion on PPML can cover a variety of policy related topics, and ARIN
> encourages free discussion. ARIN announcements to the PPML about policy
> proposals or draft policies include the proposal number or draft policy
> number in the subject field. Please retain the policy number in the subject
> line when you make comments about specific proposals or draft policies.
> Your post or reply should open with a statement of support or nonsupport
> for the topic to allow others to follow discussions of interest more easily
> and make your position clear.
>
> <<<<<
>
>
>
> On Apr 29, 2019, at 2:28 PM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via ARIN-PPML <
> arin-ppml at arin.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> Right, I was about to respond as well, but I think at this stage we should
> keep the discussion on the petition.
>
>
>
> All those details could be agreed once we have the proposal adopted for
> the discussion. In fact, we have a new version ready (v2, being published
> in RIPE soon) with have a lot of additional details on that, which is part
> of the outcome of several weeks of discussion on our RIPE v1 of this
> proposal.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jordi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> El 29/4/19 20:17, "ARIN-PPML en nombre de William Herrin" <
> arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net en nombre de bill at herrin.us> escribió:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 9:53 AM Mike Arbrouet <mike at brainiacsquad.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Can anyone (policy expert) help me out with some ambiguities
>
> > regarding the selection procedures of the Expert's Pool? These
>
> > clarifications are important for me to be able to make a decision on
>
> > supporting/rejecting the [arin-ppml] Open Petition for
>
> > ARIN-prop-266: BGP Hijacking is an ARIN Policy Violation.
>
> Hi Mike,
>
>
>
> Respectfully, we're at a different part of the conversation here. The only
> decision you're asked to make about the petition is whether we should be
> discussing the proposal at all. The formulation of the experts pool (or
> whether the proposal retains a shape that needs an experts pool) is a
> discussion for later (or never) depending on your choice on the petition.
>
>
>
> As you decide whether to support the petition, the petition to discuss and
> work on the proposal, consider: you dived in to and discussed the
> proposal's details.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Bill Herrin
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com  bill at herrin.us
> Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/>
>
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> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> http://www.theipv6company.com
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>
> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of
> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized
> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly
> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the
> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal
> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this
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