[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2019-4: Allow Inter-regional IPv6 Resource Transfers
Owen DeLong
owen at delong.com
Fri Apr 5 14:01:40 EDT 2019
I am in complete agreement here. Let us not construct a policy in support of IP policy forum shopping.
If we want to consolidate all the RIRs into RIPE because they have the most liberal policies and lowest fees, then let’s be honest about it and do it directly through proposals to consolidate the other RIRs. Otherwise, let’s recognize the inevitable consequence of this proposal regardless of advocate’s intents (which I mostly take at face value).
Owen
> On Apr 5, 2019, at 08:22, hostmaster at uneedus.com wrote:
>
> The statement sounds better than before, but I am still opposed to allowing Inter-regional transfers of IPv6 Resources.
>
> As pointed out by others, the reasons why IPv4 and ASN transfers that are currently permitted DO NOT exist with IPv6. These are:
>
> 1) There is a shortage of 16bit ASN numbers.
>
> 2) There is a shortage of IPv4 addresses.
>
> However there is NO shortage of IPv6 addresses, and therefore no need to permit RIR transfers like in the above cases.
>
> If one has moved their assets around and now wants their resources administered by the RIR where they have moved, let them get numbers directly from that RIR.
>
> Even with virtual servers, the actual server is physically in one of the existing RIR regions, and that region is the one where resources should be obtained in most cases. If in fact there will be a physical server move to a different RIR region, renumbering is going to be a fact of life anyway, unless everything is being moved at once at one time. This is rarely done due to the downtime that such a move would incur.
>
> I see this more as a proposal that will permit forum shopping. One does not like the policies of RIR1, so I will take my ball (and my numbers) to RIR2. I am opposed to permitting IPv6 transfers, especially of PA space. Fragmentation is also going to often result if this is permitted.
>
> Albert Erdmann
> Network Administrator
> Paradise On Line Inc.
>
>
>> On Fri, 5 Apr 2019, David Farmer wrote:
>>
>> Jordi,
>>
>> No problem, what I'm asking the community is if people support the
>> use-cases you brought up. If they do, it seems like those use-cases need to
>> be added to the problem statement. In my opinion, the current problem
>> statement seems overly focused on the RPKI issue even to the point where it
>> could be implying RPKI is the only reason you might want to transfer IPv6
>> resources to another region.
>>
>> I'd propose the following rewrite of the problem statement;
>>
>> There are operational reasons to allow transfers of IPv6 resources between
>> RIRs with an equivalent transfer policy.
>>
>> ARIN’s RPKI Trust Anchor (TA) is measurably less widely deployed than TAs
>> from other RIRs. As a consequence, RPKI ROAs published through ARIN offer
>> less value. Operators seeking to extract the most value from their
>> investment in IPv6 would benefit from the ability to transfer IPv6
>> resources to RIRs with more widely deployed RPKI Trust Anchors.
>>
>> Apart from RPKI, an organization may wish to consolidate or manage the
>> entirety of their resources, including IPv6, via a single RIR. For example,
>> after acquiring an entity in another region or being acquired by an entity
>> based in another region.
>>
>> Or, an organization may wish to move its resources, including IPv6, to more
>> accurately reflect where their resources are now in use. For example, if
>> the organization is no longer operating within the ARIN region, it seems
>> reasonable to move its resources to a region where they continue to operate.
>>
>>
>> Comments or suggestions, please.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 3:28 AM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via ARIN-PPML <
>> arin-ppml at arin.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi David,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry if somehow my input was “miss procedural” … the reason for that is
>>> because I’ve proposed an equivalent policy in several RIRs (in terms the
>>> final result: allowing IPv6 transfers), and this was one of the examples
>>> I’ve used.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And just to make it clear, I also support the policy proposal for the
>>> reasons indicated in the actual proposal text.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here is a message about that with some other examples:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://mailman.apnic.net/mailing-lists/sig-policy/archive/2019/03/msg00003.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regarsds,
>>>
>>> Jordi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> El 27/3/19 2:40, "David Farmer" <farmer at umn.edu> escribió:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As one of the shepherds for this policy, beyond support for the policy as
>>> written, I'm interested to hear if there is support for the use case Jordi
>>> describes?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The use case Jordi describes seems meaningfully different than the use
>>> case described in the original problem statement. It seems plausible that
>>> there are resolutions, other than the transfer of IPv6, to the RPKI issues
>>> described in the current problem statement. However, for the use
>>> case that Jordi describes, some kind of the inter-RIR M&A transfer, the
>>> transfer of IPv6 resources seems like it could be reasonable, even if the
>>> RPKI issues are resolved by means other than this policy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So, should Jordi's use case be included in addition to the current problem
>>> statement?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Are there other use cases for the inter-RIR transfer of IPv6 resources
>>> that should be considered in the problem statement as well?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 4:46 PM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via ARIN-PPML <
>>> arin-ppml at arin.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> In favor of the proposal.
>>>
>>> My point of view is on the other way around.
>>>
>>> This policy is needed, because if there is a company under an M&A or
>>> reorganization, it seems clear that then it is transferred IPv4, IPv6, ASN.
>>> But there may be cases where is not entirely failing into that category.
>>>
>>> For example, a "relocation". A company having VMs in data centers, in
>>> Europe (with resources from RIPE NCC) and moving to US (for whatever
>>> reasons). I don't expect they will renumber the VMs, they will just copy &
>>> synchronize the VMs and switch off the old VMs.
>>>
>>> It will not make sense to tell them "you can transfer" your IPv4
>>> resources, but you need to renumber IPv6.
>>>
>>> There may be other cases which similar needs.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Jordi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> El 26/3/19 22:35, "ARIN-PPML en nombre de John Santos" <
>>> arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net en nombre de john at egh.com> escribió:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/26/2019 3:52 PM, ARIN wrote:
>>> > There is an operational need to allow RIR transfers of IPv6
>>> resources
>>> > between RIRs with an equivalent transfer policy. ARIN’s RPKI Trust
>>> > Anchor (TA) is measurably less widely deployed than TAs from other
>>> > RIRs. As a consequence, RPKI ROAs published through ARIN offer less
>>> > value. Operators seeking to extract the most value from their
>>> > investment in IPv6 would benefit from the ability to transfer IPv6
>>> > resources to RIRs with more widely deployed RPKI Trust Anchors.
>>> Wouldn't it make more sense to increase the deployment of RPKI in the
>>> ARIN region than to open this can of worms?
>>>
>>> --
>>> John Santos
>>> Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.
>>> 781-861-0670 ext 539
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ARIN-PPML
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>>>
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>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> ===============================================
>>> David Farmer Email:farmer at umn.edu
>>> Networking & Telecommunication Services
>>> Office of Information Technology
>>> University of Minnesota
>>> 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815
>>> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952
>>> ===============================================
>>>
>>> **********************************************
>>> IPv4 is over
>>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
>>> http://www.theipv6company.com
>>> The IPv6 Company
>>>
>>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
>>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of
>>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized
>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
>>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly
>>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the
>>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
>>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
>>> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal
>>> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this
>>> communication and delete it.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ARIN-PPML
>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net).
>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
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>>
>>
>> --
>> ===============================================
>> David Farmer Email:farmer at umn.edu
>> Networking & Telecommunication Services
>> Office of Information Technology
>> University of Minnesota
>> 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815
>> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952
>> ===============================================
> _______________________________________________
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