[arin-ppml] 2017-8 community networks

Rudolph Daniel rudi.daniel at gmail.com
Wed Oct 4 11:47:30 EDT 2017


A community network is a network organized and operated by a volunteer
group, not-for-profit, non-profit, or charitable organization
>  for the purpose of providing free or low-cost connectivity within their
community. Volunteers play a large role in directing the activity of the
organization, but some functions may be handled by paid staff.?

The above suggested definition seems a good deal more tidy that others I
have read.
rd

On Oct 3, 2017 5:35 PM, <arin-ppml-request at arin.net> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Revised: Draft Policy ARIN-2017-8: Amend the Definition
      of Community Network (David Huberman)
   2. Re: Revised: Draft Policy ARIN-2017-8: Amend the Definition
      of Community Network (David Farmer)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 19:32:27 -0400
From: David Huberman <daveid at panix.com>
To: Richard J Letts <rjletts at uw.edu>
Cc: "arin-ppml at arin.net" <arin-ppml at arin.net>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Revised: Draft Policy ARIN-2017-8: Amend the
        Definition of Community Network
Message-ID: <765A1483-6CC2-4A09-9187-8F84DD6ABD18 at panix.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I like this language a lot, and the strong reasoning behind it.


> On Oct 3, 2017, at 3:52 PM, Richard J Letts <rjletts at uw.edu> wrote:
>
>
> My point of view
> a)       I am not sure why educational institutions are not able to pay
the fees for other categories of usage, or why they need an exception.
> ARIN staff would need to decide if the application satisfies this: ?a
volunteer group, not-for-profit, non-profit, or charitable organization?
>
> I?ve been involved with enough community groups to know that two of these
have weak governance structures that fail when there are conflicts (a
volunteer group and being a non-core aspect of a charitable organization),
inevitably leading to the collapse of the organization. I?m not going to
prejudge that debate here, but consider striking them. If the community
organization doesn?t have 501(c)3 status in the US they are leaving out the
opportunity to save money and get grants.
>
> Without a legal entity ?owning? the space how would ARIN know they were
dealing with, who is legally allowed to dispose of the space, etc.
>
> b)      Who cares if they provide ?other Information Technology services?
to their community; we?re talking about internet access here
>
> c)       ?Persons or entities? seems redundant (It is like saying ?people
or not people?); who/what are the not a person and not an entity that are
excluded?
>
> d)      I am not sure what is considered critical? Digging ditches?
Pulling fiber? Responding to ARIN requests? Filing forms with the IRS?
> As an example I?m on the board of a non-profit. We decide on the aims,
manage the membership, etc. but we pay [independent 1099] contractors for
services (editing and printing the newsletter, performing at concerts,
concert sound, etc.). Some of these are non-critical (the newsletter), some
are critical (the performers), volunteers some critical things (IRS tax
returns, state registrations) and some non-critical things (run the website)
>
> So I think I end up with something with fewer words.
> ?A community network is a network organized and operated by a volunteer
group, not-for-profit, non-profit, or charitable organization
>  for the purpose of providing free or low-cost connectivity within their
community. Volunteers play a large role in directing the activity of the
organization, but some functions may be handled by paid staff.?
>
>
> /RjL
>
>
> ?2.11 Community Network
>
> A community network is a network organized and operated by a volunteer
> group, not-for-profit, non-profit, charitable organization, or
> educational institution for the purpose of providing free or low-cost
> connectivity, or other Information Technology services to persons or
> entities within their community. Critical functions may be handled by
> paid staff, but volunteers play a large role in offering services
> available through community networks.?
>
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 19:34:33 -0500
From: David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu>
To: Richard J Letts <rjletts at uw.edu>
Cc: "arin-ppml at arin.net" <arin-ppml at arin.net>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Revised: Draft Policy ARIN-2017-8: Amend the
        Definition of Community Network
Message-ID:
        <CAN-Dau193J0C+=nO14Jkbmn2GVXSPPUZ2Qb6LGVbe3cLNPtU6Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Richard J Letts <rjletts at uw.edu> wrote:

>
>
> My point of view
>
> a)       I am not sure why educational institutions are not able to pay
> the fees for other categories of usage, or why they need an exception.
>
> ARIN staff would need to decide if the application satisfies this: ?a
> volunteer group, not-for-profit, non-profit, or charitable organization?
>
>  I?ve been involved with enough community groups to know that two of
> these have weak governance structures that fail when there are conflicts
(a
> volunteer group and being a non-core aspect of a charitable organization),
> inevitably leading to the collapse of the organization. I?m not going to
> prejudge that debate here, but consider striking them. If the community
> organization doesn?t have 501(c)3 status in the US they are leaving out
the
> opportunity to save money and get grants.
>
> Without a legal entity ?owning? the space how would ARIN know they were
> dealing with, who is legally allowed to dispose of the space, etc.
>
Does it matter if they are non-profit?  I believe that was originally
included with the hopes that the board to offer a discount.  The board has
hasn't provided a discount, I doubt they ever will.  The board did provided
the 3X-small fee category, which by policy is not available to ISPs. What
if community networks are allowed to be a 3X-small ISPs, the basic idea
behind ARIN-2016-7. Having community networks be 3X-Small ISPs seems to be
more aligned with what they are doing, it allows them to SWIP, where if
they are an end-user they can not.

So, again, does it matter if they are non-profit?  How a bout we focus on
what they are and what do, rather than how they are incorporated or
registered.

ISOC says;

"Community networks, communications infrastructure deployed and operated by
citizens to meet their own communication needs, are being increasingly
proposed as a solution to connect the unconnected."

https://www.internetsociety.org/issues/community-networks/

Citizen isn't the right word for here, but how about users?  So how about
something like this.

"A community network is a network deployed, operated and governed by it's
users, with a purpose of providing free or low-cost connectivity within to
its user's and the community in which they reside?"

By going to 3X-small ISP, if a community network is or gets big they pay
the same as any other ISP of their size, if they are truly small they have
access to the 3X-small ISP fee category.  And, ARIN staff doesn't have to
poke its nose into the financial status of an organization, for-profit or
non-profit.

> b)      Who cares if they provide ?other Information Technology services?
> to their community; we?re talking about internet access here
>
 If in addition to "connectivity" they also provide email or web hosting is
that OK?

Thanks.

--
===============================================
David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu
Networking & Telecommunication Services
Office of Information Technology
University of Minnesota
2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
===============================================
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