<p dir="ltr">A community network is a network organized and operated by a volunteer group, not-for-profit, non-profit, or charitable organization<br>
> for the purpose of providing free or low-cost connectivity within their community. Volunteers play a large role in directing the activity of the organization, but some functions may be handled by paid staff.?</p>
<p dir="ltr">The above suggested definition seems a good deal more tidy that others I have read.<br>
rd</p>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Oct 3, 2017 5:35 PM, <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-request@arin.net">arin-ppml-request@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Revised: Draft Policy ARIN-2017-8: Amend the Definition<br>
of Community Network (David Huberman)<br>
2. Re: Revised: Draft Policy ARIN-2017-8: Amend the Definition<br>
of Community Network (David Farmer)<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>----------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 19:32:27 -0400<br>
From: David Huberman <<a href="mailto:daveid@panix.com">daveid@panix.com</a>><br>
To: Richard J Letts <<a href="mailto:rjletts@uw.edu">rjletts@uw.edu</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Revised: Draft Policy ARIN-2017-8: Amend the<br>
Definition of Community Network<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:765A1483-6CC2-4A09-9187-8F84DD6ABD18@panix.com">765A1483-6CC2-4A09-9187-<wbr>8F84DD6ABD18@panix.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
I like this language a lot, and the strong reasoning behind it.<br>
<br>
<br>
> On Oct 3, 2017, at 3:52 PM, Richard J Letts <<a href="mailto:rjletts@uw.edu">rjletts@uw.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> My point of view<br>
> a) I am not sure why educational institutions are not able to pay the fees for other categories of usage, or why they need an exception.<br>
> ARIN staff would need to decide if the application satisfies this: ?a volunteer group, not-for-profit, non-profit, or charitable organization?<br>
><br>
> I?ve been involved with enough community groups to know that two of these have weak governance structures that fail when there are conflicts (a volunteer group and being a non-core aspect of a charitable organization), inevitably leading to the collapse of the organization. I?m not going to prejudge that debate here, but consider striking them. If the community organization doesn?t have 501(c)3 status in the US they are leaving out the opportunity to save money and get grants.<br>
><br>
> Without a legal entity ?owning? the space how would ARIN know they were dealing with, who is legally allowed to dispose of the space, etc.<br>
><br>
> b) Who cares if they provide ?other Information Technology services? to their community; we?re talking about internet access here<br>
><br>
> c) ?Persons or entities? seems redundant (It is like saying ?people or not people?); who/what are the not a person and not an entity that are excluded?<br>
><br>
> d) I am not sure what is considered critical? Digging ditches? Pulling fiber? Responding to ARIN requests? Filing forms with the IRS?<br>
> As an example I?m on the board of a non-profit. We decide on the aims, manage the membership, etc. but we pay [independent 1099] contractors for services (editing and printing the newsletter, performing at concerts, concert sound, etc.). Some of these are non-critical (the newsletter), some are critical (the performers), volunteers some critical things (IRS tax returns, state registrations) and some non-critical things (run the website)<br>
><br>
> So I think I end up with something with fewer words.<br>
> ?A community network is a network organized and operated by a volunteer group, not-for-profit, non-profit, or charitable organization<br>
> for the purpose of providing free or low-cost connectivity within their community. Volunteers play a large role in directing the activity of the organization, but some functions may be handled by paid staff.?<br>
><br>
><br>
> /RjL<br>
><br>
><br>
> ?2.11 Community Network<br>
><br>
> A community network is a network organized and operated by a volunteer<br>
> group, not-for-profit, non-profit, charitable organization, or<br>
> educational institution for the purpose of providing free or low-cost<br>
> connectivity, or other Information Technology services to persons or<br>
> entities within their community. Critical functions may be handled by<br>
> paid staff, but volunteers play a large role in offering services<br>
> available through community networks.?<br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> PPML<br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 19:34:33 -0500<br>
From: David Farmer <<a href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu">farmer@umn.edu</a>><br>
To: Richard J Letts <<a href="mailto:rjletts@uw.edu">rjletts@uw.edu</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Revised: Draft Policy ARIN-2017-8: Amend the<br>
Definition of Community Network<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAN-Dau193J0C+=<a href="mailto:nO14Jkbmn2GVXSPPUZ2Qb6LGVbe3cLNPtU6Q@mail.gmail.com">nO14Jkbmn2GVXS<wbr>PPUZ2Qb6LGVbe3cLNPtU6Q@mail.<wbr>gmail.com</a>><br>
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<br>
On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Richard J Letts <<a href="mailto:rjletts@uw.edu">rjletts@uw.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
><br>
><br>
> My point of view<br>
><br>
> a) I am not sure why educational institutions are not able to pay<br>
> the fees for other categories of usage, or why they need an exception.<br>
><br>
> ARIN staff would need to decide if the application satisfies this: ?a<br>
> volunteer group, not-for-profit, non-profit, or charitable organization?<br>
><br>
> I?ve been involved with enough community groups to know that two of<br>
> these have weak governance structures that fail when there are conflicts (a<br>
> volunteer group and being a non-core aspect of a charitable organization),<br>
> inevitably leading to the collapse of the organization. I?m not going to<br>
> prejudge that debate here, but consider striking them. If the community<br>
> organization doesn?t have 501(c)3 status in the US they are leaving out the<br>
> opportunity to save money and get grants.<br>
><br>
> Without a legal entity ?owning? the space how would ARIN know they were<br>
> dealing with, who is legally allowed to dispose of the space, etc.<br>
><br>
Does it matter if they are non-profit? I believe that was originally<br>
included with the hopes that the board to offer a discount. The board has<br>
hasn't provided a discount, I doubt they ever will. The board did provided<br>
the 3X-small fee category, which by policy is not available to ISPs. What<br>
if community networks are allowed to be a 3X-small ISPs, the basic idea<br>
behind ARIN-2016-7. Having community networks be 3X-Small ISPs seems to be<br>
more aligned with what they are doing, it allows them to SWIP, where if<br>
they are an end-user they can not.<br>
<br>
So, again, does it matter if they are non-profit? How a bout we focus on<br>
what they are and what do, rather than how they are incorporated or<br>
registered.<br>
<br>
ISOC says;<br>
<br>
"Community networks, communications infrastructure deployed and operated by<br>
citizens to meet their own communication needs, are being increasingly<br>
proposed as a solution to connect the unconnected."<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.internetsociety.org/issues/community-networks/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.internetsociety.<wbr>org/issues/community-networks/</a><br>
<br>
Citizen isn't the right word for here, but how about users? So how about<br>
something like this.<br>
<br>
"A community network is a network deployed, operated and governed by it's<br>
users, with a purpose of providing free or low-cost connectivity within to<br>
its user's and the community in which they reside?"<br>
<br>
By going to 3X-small ISP, if a community network is or gets big they pay<br>
the same as any other ISP of their size, if they are truly small they have<br>
access to the 3X-small ISP fee category. And, ARIN staff doesn't have to<br>
poke its nose into the financial status of an organization, for-profit or<br>
non-profit.<br>
<br>
> b) Who cares if they provide ?other Information Technology services?<br>
> to their community; we?re talking about internet access here<br>
><br>
If in addition to "connectivity" they also provide email or web hosting is<br>
that OK?<br>
<br>
Thanks.<br>
<br>
--<br>
==============================<wbr>=================<br>
David Farmer <a href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu">Email:farmer@umn.edu</a><br>
Networking & Telecommunication Services<br>
Office of Information Technology<br>
University of Minnesota<br>
2218 University Ave SE Phone: <a href="tel:612-626-0815" value="+16126260815">612-626-0815</a><br>
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: <a href="tel:612-812-9952" value="+16128129952">612-812-9952</a><br>
==============================<wbr>=================<br>
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</blockquote></div><br></div>