[arin-ppml] ARIN-2017-2

Rudolph Daniel rudi.daniel at gmail.com
Wed Jun 14 10:14:58 EDT 2017


I oppose this draft policy on the grounds expressed by a few others here..I
would like to see ARIN keep community networks and look at a redefinition
of .
I agree also that there is perhaps a need to also rework the 100%
requirement but be also mindful of possible abuse in doing so.
RD
On Jun 13, 2017 11:43 PM, <arin-ppml-request at arin.net> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2017-2: Removal of Community Networks
>       (Marita Moll)
>    2. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2017-2: Removal of Community Networks
>       (Jason Schiller)
>    3. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2017-2: Removal of Community Networks
>       (hostmaster at uneedus.com)
>    4. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2017-2: Removal of Community Networks
>       (Marita Moll)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 21:57:20 -0400
> From: Marita Moll <mmoll at ca.inter.net>
> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2017-2: Removal of
>         Community Networks
> Message-ID: <a57053d5-4b89-9e83-b73f-d5a11a76ff27 at ca.inter.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> Hello all. As part of NARALO, I attended the ARIN mtg in New Orleans and
> became aware of the policy re: community networks. I don't have all the
> details others can contribute. But I have been involved on the policy
> side with community networks in Canada for 20 years, so can provide a
> small slice of context from here.
>
> I totally agree that community networks see a lot of value in being
> recognized in ARIN policy. The few are doing well, others struggle to
> exist.  But they have been and in some areas are still an important part
> of the Internet access landscape. It is difficult, as it is, to even
> locate these scattered entities. Deleting language the recognizes their
> existence would be a shame.
>
> The 100% volunteer driven requirement is not realistic. I don't know
> what it should be. Even 70% volunteer driven might not bring in much
> more activity in the short term but it would be a recognition that the
> non-profit/cooperative model is a viable option for communities trying
> to manage their own access issues.
>
> Marita Moll
>
> Telecommunities Canada (loose coalition of community networks in Canada)
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 22:35:23 -0400
> From: Jason Schiller <jschiller at google.com>
> To: Marita Moll <mmoll at ca.inter.net>
> Cc: "arin-ppml at arin.net" <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2017-2: Removal of
>         Community Networks
> Message-ID:
>         <CAC4yj2Xf5+vDgkDHv4+nyxrM3Soiik7EU6KiRYqJpqK5wKsJa
> g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Marita,
>
> I take to message to mean having ARIN policy for community networks
> is helpful, and the policy is not used by community networks, because
> the 100% volunteer requirement disqualifies many who would benefit
> which is why the policy has gone unused.
>
> The next step is coming up with a definition that will support community
> networks, but not allow other organizations to abuse the definition as a
> loophole.
>
> The conversation needs to shift to how do we define "community networks"
> in a useful way.
>
> Propose a definition for community networks.
>
> Can you borrow from other definitions of community networks
> that you come across in your sphere, such as  say the tax codes,
> or access to some other privilege that community networks may
> be granted?
>
> I suspect the ARIN community would be happy dropping the volunteer
> requirement if there was some other way to separate out things
> that are community networks.
>
> __Jason
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 9:57 PM, Marita Moll <mmoll at ca.inter.net> wrote:
>
> > Hello all. As part of NARALO, I attended the ARIN mtg in New Orleans and
> > became aware of the policy re: community networks. I don't have all the
> > details others can contribute. But I have been involved on the policy
> side
> > with community networks in Canada for 20 years, so can provide a small
> > slice of context from here.
> >
> > I totally agree that community networks see a lot of value in being
> > recognized in ARIN policy. The few are doing well, others struggle to
> > exist.  But they have been and in some areas are still an important part
> of
> > the Internet access landscape. It is difficult, as it is, to even locate
> > these scattered entities. Deleting language the recognizes their
> existence
> > would be a shame.
> >
> > The 100% volunteer driven requirement is not realistic. I don't know what
> > it should be. Even 70% volunteer driven might not bring in much more
> > activity in the short term but it would be a recognition that the
> > non-profit/cooperative model is a viable option for communities trying to
> > manage their own access issues.
> >
> > Marita Moll
> >
> > Telecommunities Canada (loose coalition of community networks in Canada)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PPML
> > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net).
> > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
> > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> _______________________________________________________
> Jason Schiller|NetOps|jschiller at google.com|571-266-0006
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 22:57:24 -0400 (EDT)
> From: hostmaster at uneedus.com
> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2017-2: Removal of
>         Community Networks
> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1706132216290.4910 at localhost.localdomain>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> I am opposed to the Draft Policy ARIN-2017-2 for community networks, as I
> do not think the community network language should be removed from the
> Policy Manual.  Instead, the policy should be fixed to allow its use.
>
> In order for the policy to be useable, amendments need to be made to the
> policy, such as lowering the 100% volunteer requirement which has been
> identifed as a reason the policy has never been used.
>
> Ideas to cut the fees for community networks should also be considered.
> True community networks operate on a shoestring, and generally cannot
> afford ISP level fees.
>
> Albert Erdmann
> Network Administrator
> Paradise On Line Inc.
>
> On Tue, 13 Jun 2017, Marita Moll wrote:
>
> > Hello all. As part of NARALO, I attended the ARIN mtg in New Orleans and
> > became aware of the policy re: community networks. I don't have all the
> > details others can contribute. But I have been involved on the policy
> side
> > with community networks in Canada for 20 years, so can provide a small
> slice
> > of context from here.
> >
> > I totally agree that community networks see a lot of value in being
> > recognized in ARIN policy. The few are doing well, others struggle to
> exist.
> > But they have been and in some areas are still an important part of the
> > Internet access landscape. It is difficult, as it is, to even locate
> these
> > scattered entities. Deleting language the recognizes their existence
> would be
> > a shame.
> >
> > The 100% volunteer driven requirement is not realistic. I don't know
> what it
> > should be. Even 70% volunteer driven might not bring in much more
> activity in
> > the short term but it would be a recognition that the
> non-profit/cooperative
> > model is a viable option for communities trying to manage their own
> access
> > issues.
> >
> > Marita Moll
> >
> > Telecommunities Canada (loose coalition of community networks in Canada)
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 23:43:23 -0400
> From: Marita Moll <mmoll at ca.inter.net>
> To: Jason Schiller <jschiller at google.com>
> Cc: "arin-ppml at arin.net" <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2017-2: Removal of
>         Community Networks
> Message-ID: <da13b09a-3268-417c-0462-6a49816f67d5 at ca.inter.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> Might be breaking new ground here re: definitions. I will check around.
> It will take a few days.
>
> Marita
>
> 17 10:35 PM, Jason Schiller wrote:
> > Marita,
> >
> > I take to message to mean having ARIN policy for community networks
> > is helpful, and the policy is not used by community networks, because
> > the 100% volunteer requirement disqualifies many who would benefit
> > which is why the policy has gone unused.
> >
> > The next step is coming up with a definition that will support community
> > networks, but not allow other organizations to abuse the definition as a
> > loophole.
> >
> > The conversation needs to shift to how do we define "community networks"
> > in a useful way.
> >
> > Propose a definition for community networks.
> >
> > Can you borrow from other definitions of community networks
> > that you come across in your sphere, such as  say the tax codes,
> > or access to some other privilege that community networks may
> > be granted?
> >
> > I suspect the ARIN community would be happy dropping the volunteer
> > requirement if there was some other way to separate out things
> > that are community networks.
> >
> > __Jason
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 9:57 PM, Marita Moll <mmoll at ca.inter.net
> > <mailto:mmoll at ca.inter.net>> wrote:
> >
> >     Hello all. As part of NARALO, I attended the ARIN mtg in New
> >     Orleans and became aware of the policy re: community networks. I
> >     don't have all the details others can contribute. But I have been
> >     involved on the policy side with community networks in Canada for
> >     20 years, so can provide a small slice of context from here.
> >
> >     I totally agree that community networks see a lot of value in
> >     being recognized in ARIN policy. The few are doing well, others
> >     struggle to exist.  But they have been and in some areas are still
> >     an important part of the Internet access landscape. It is
> >     difficult, as it is, to even locate these scattered entities.
> >     Deleting language the recognizes their existence would be a shame.
> >
> >     The 100% volunteer driven requirement is not realistic. I don't
> >     know what it should be. Even 70% volunteer driven might not bring
> >     in much more activity in the short term but it would be a
> >     recognition that the non-profit/cooperative model is a viable
> >     option for communities trying to manage their own access issues.
> >
> >     Marita Moll
> >
> >     Telecommunities Canada (loose coalition of community networks in
> >     Canada)
> >
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     PPML
> >     You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> >     the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net
> >     <mailto:ARIN-PPML at arin.net>).
> >     Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> >     http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
> >     <http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml>
> >     Please contact info at arin.net <mailto:info at arin.net> if you
> >     experience any issues.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > _______________________________________________________
> > Jason Schiller|NetOps|jschiller at google.com
> > <mailto:jschiller at google.com>|571-266-0006
> >
>
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