<p dir="ltr">I oppose this draft policy on the grounds expressed by a few others here..I would like to see ARIN keep community networks and look at a redefinition of .<br>
I agree also that there is perhaps a need to also rework the 100% requirement but be also mindful of possible abuse in doing so.<br>
RD</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jun 13, 2017 11:43 PM, <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-request@arin.net">arin-ppml-request@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to<br>
<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
<a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-request@arin.net">arin-ppml-request@arin.net</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-owner@arin.net">arin-ppml-owner@arin.net</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..."<br>
<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2017-2: Removal of Community Networks<br>
(Marita Moll)<br>
2. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2017-2: Removal of Community Networks<br>
(Jason Schiller)<br>
3. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2017-2: Removal of Community Networks<br>
(<a href="mailto:hostmaster@uneedus.com">hostmaster@uneedus.com</a>)<br>
4. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2017-2: Removal of Community Networks<br>
(Marita Moll)<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>----------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 21:57:20 -0400<br>
From: Marita Moll <<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2017-2: Removal of<br>
Community Networks<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:a57053d5-4b89-9e83-b73f-d5a11a76ff27@ca.inter.net">a57053d5-4b89-9e83-b73f-<wbr>d5a11a76ff27@ca.inter.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
Hello all. As part of NARALO, I attended the ARIN mtg in New Orleans and<br>
became aware of the policy re: community networks. I don't have all the<br>
details others can contribute. But I have been involved on the policy<br>
side with community networks in Canada for 20 years, so can provide a<br>
small slice of context from here.<br>
<br>
I totally agree that community networks see a lot of value in being<br>
recognized in ARIN policy. The few are doing well, others struggle to<br>
exist. But they have been and in some areas are still an important part<br>
of the Internet access landscape. It is difficult, as it is, to even<br>
locate these scattered entities. Deleting language the recognizes their<br>
existence would be a shame.<br>
<br>
The 100% volunteer driven requirement is not realistic. I don't know<br>
what it should be. Even 70% volunteer driven might not bring in much<br>
more activity in the short term but it would be a recognition that the<br>
non-profit/cooperative model is a viable option for communities trying<br>
to manage their own access issues.<br>
<br>
Marita Moll<br>
<br>
Telecommunities Canada (loose coalition of community networks in Canada)<br>
<br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href="http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20170613/c2530e50/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/<wbr>pipermail/arin-ppml/<wbr>attachments/20170613/c2530e50/<wbr>attachment-0001.html</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 22:35:23 -0400<br>
From: Jason Schiller <<a href="mailto:jschiller@google.com">jschiller@google.com</a>><br>
To: Marita Moll <<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2017-2: Removal of<br>
Community Networks<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAC4yj2Xf5%2BvDgkDHv4%2BnyxrM3Soiik7EU6KiRYqJpqK5wKsJag@mail.gmail.com">CAC4yj2Xf5+vDgkDHv4+<wbr>nyxrM3Soiik7EU6KiRYqJpqK5wKsJa<wbr>g@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Marita,<br>
<br>
I take to message to mean having ARIN policy for community networks<br>
is helpful, and the policy is not used by community networks, because<br>
the 100% volunteer requirement disqualifies many who would benefit<br>
which is why the policy has gone unused.<br>
<br>
The next step is coming up with a definition that will support community<br>
networks, but not allow other organizations to abuse the definition as a<br>
loophole.<br>
<br>
The conversation needs to shift to how do we define "community networks"<br>
in a useful way.<br>
<br>
Propose a definition for community networks.<br>
<br>
Can you borrow from other definitions of community networks<br>
that you come across in your sphere, such as say the tax codes,<br>
or access to some other privilege that community networks may<br>
be granted?<br>
<br>
I suspect the ARIN community would be happy dropping the volunteer<br>
requirement if there was some other way to separate out things<br>
that are community networks.<br>
<br>
__Jason<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 9:57 PM, Marita Moll <<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Hello all. As part of NARALO, I attended the ARIN mtg in New Orleans and<br>
> became aware of the policy re: community networks. I don't have all the<br>
> details others can contribute. But I have been involved on the policy side<br>
> with community networks in Canada for 20 years, so can provide a small<br>
> slice of context from here.<br>
><br>
> I totally agree that community networks see a lot of value in being<br>
> recognized in ARIN policy. The few are doing well, others struggle to<br>
> exist. But they have been and in some areas are still an important part of<br>
> the Internet access landscape. It is difficult, as it is, to even locate<br>
> these scattered entities. Deleting language the recognizes their existence<br>
> would be a shame.<br>
><br>
> The 100% volunteer driven requirement is not realistic. I don't know what<br>
> it should be. Even 70% volunteer driven might not bring in much more<br>
> activity in the short term but it would be a recognition that the<br>
> non-profit/cooperative model is a viable option for communities trying to<br>
> manage their own access issues.<br>
><br>
> Marita Moll<br>
><br>
> Telecommunities Canada (loose coalition of community networks in Canada)<br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> PPML<br>
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
> <a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________________<br>
Jason Schiller|NetOps|<a href="mailto:jschiller@google.com">jschiller@<wbr>google.com</a>|<a href="tel:571-266-0006" value="+15712660006">571-266-0006</a><br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href="http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20170613/5ea2e365/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/<wbr>pipermail/arin-ppml/<wbr>attachments/20170613/5ea2e365/<wbr>attachment-0001.html</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 22:57:24 -0400 (EDT)<br>
From: <a href="mailto:hostmaster@uneedus.com">hostmaster@uneedus.com</a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2017-2: Removal of<br>
Community Networks<br>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1706132216290.<wbr>4910@localhost.localdomain><br>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed<br>
<br>
I am opposed to the Draft Policy ARIN-2017-2 for community networks, as I<br>
do not think the community network language should be removed from the<br>
Policy Manual. Instead, the policy should be fixed to allow its use.<br>
<br>
In order for the policy to be useable, amendments need to be made to the<br>
policy, such as lowering the 100% volunteer requirement which has been<br>
identifed as a reason the policy has never been used.<br>
<br>
Ideas to cut the fees for community networks should also be considered.<br>
True community networks operate on a shoestring, and generally cannot<br>
afford ISP level fees.<br>
<br>
Albert Erdmann<br>
Network Administrator<br>
Paradise On Line Inc.<br>
<br>
On Tue, 13 Jun 2017, Marita Moll wrote:<br>
<br>
> Hello all. As part of NARALO, I attended the ARIN mtg in New Orleans and<br>
> became aware of the policy re: community networks. I don't have all the<br>
> details others can contribute. But I have been involved on the policy side<br>
> with community networks in Canada for 20 years, so can provide a small slice<br>
> of context from here.<br>
><br>
> I totally agree that community networks see a lot of value in being<br>
> recognized in ARIN policy. The few are doing well, others struggle to exist.<br>
> But they have been and in some areas are still an important part of the<br>
> Internet access landscape. It is difficult, as it is, to even locate these<br>
> scattered entities. Deleting language the recognizes their existence would be<br>
> a shame.<br>
><br>
> The 100% volunteer driven requirement is not realistic. I don't know what it<br>
> should be. Even 70% volunteer driven might not bring in much more activity in<br>
> the short term but it would be a recognition that the non-profit/cooperative<br>
> model is a viable option for communities trying to manage their own access<br>
> issues.<br>
><br>
> Marita Moll<br>
><br>
> Telecommunities Canada (loose coalition of community networks in Canada)<br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 23:43:23 -0400<br>
From: Marita Moll <<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><br>
To: Jason Schiller <<a href="mailto:jschiller@google.com">jschiller@google.com</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2017-2: Removal of<br>
Community Networks<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:da13b09a-3268-417c-0462-6a49816f67d5@ca.inter.net">da13b09a-3268-417c-0462-<wbr>6a49816f67d5@ca.inter.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
Might be breaking new ground here re: definitions. I will check around.<br>
It will take a few days.<br>
<br>
Marita<br>
<br>
17 10:35 PM, Jason Schiller wrote:<br>
> Marita,<br>
><br>
> I take to message to mean having ARIN policy for community networks<br>
> is helpful, and the policy is not used by community networks, because<br>
> the 100% volunteer requirement disqualifies many who would benefit<br>
> which is why the policy has gone unused.<br>
><br>
> The next step is coming up with a definition that will support community<br>
> networks, but not allow other organizations to abuse the definition as a<br>
> loophole.<br>
><br>
> The conversation needs to shift to how do we define "community networks"<br>
> in a useful way.<br>
><br>
> Propose a definition for community networks.<br>
><br>
> Can you borrow from other definitions of community networks<br>
> that you come across in your sphere, such as say the tax codes,<br>
> or access to some other privilege that community networks may<br>
> be granted?<br>
><br>
> I suspect the ARIN community would be happy dropping the volunteer<br>
> requirement if there was some other way to separate out things<br>
> that are community networks.<br>
><br>
> __Jason<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 9:57 PM, Marita Moll <<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hello all. As part of NARALO, I attended the ARIN mtg in New<br>
> Orleans and became aware of the policy re: community networks. I<br>
> don't have all the details others can contribute. But I have been<br>
> involved on the policy side with community networks in Canada for<br>
> 20 years, so can provide a small slice of context from here.<br>
><br>
> I totally agree that community networks see a lot of value in<br>
> being recognized in ARIN policy. The few are doing well, others<br>
> struggle to exist. But they have been and in some areas are still<br>
> an important part of the Internet access landscape. It is<br>
> difficult, as it is, to even locate these scattered entities.<br>
> Deleting language the recognizes their existence would be a shame.<br>
><br>
> The 100% volunteer driven requirement is not realistic. I don't<br>
> know what it should be. Even 70% volunteer driven might not bring<br>
> in much more activity in the short term but it would be a<br>
> recognition that the non-profit/cooperative model is a viable<br>
> option for communities trying to manage their own access issues.<br>
><br>
> Marita Moll<br>
><br>
> Telecommunities Canada (loose coalition of community networks in<br>
> Canada)<br>
><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> PPML<br>
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>>).<br>
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
> <a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
> <<a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a>><br>
> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a>> if you<br>
> experience any issues.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________________<br>
> Jason Schiller|NetOps|<a href="mailto:jschiller@google.com">jschiller@<wbr>google.com</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jschiller@google.com">jschiller@google.com</a>>|<a href="tel:571-266-0006" value="+15712660006">571-266-0006</a><br>
><br>
<br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href="http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20170613/13023ab0/attachment.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/<wbr>pipermail/arin-ppml/<wbr>attachments/20170613/13023ab0/<wbr>attachment.html</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Subject: Digest Footer<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
ARIN-PPML mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 144, Issue 16<br>
******************************<wbr>************<br>
</blockquote></div>