[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-5: Out of region use

[Tony Hain]

John Curran wrote:
On Jul 3, 2015, at 2:29 PM, Tony Hain <alh-ietf at tndh.net> wrote:
The entirety of 2015-5 is misguided in that it starts from the assumption
that the resources are ARIN property to begin with, then assumes that the
registrant is engaged in a business activity. 

Tony - 
 
   That’s not a correct characterization - Internet number resources are global
   in scope, but often administrated by entities that only have a specific service
   region or scope of services.   ARIN has a defined service region, and it is a
   valid question what defines an entity (legal presence, operational nexus, etc.)
   for purposes of who ARIN provides services to... 

[TH] I believe the rest of what I said and this paragraph are in violent agreement, but defining who ARIN provides service to is not the point of this proposed text; by content or title. This document is trying to scope where resources get used, not who is allowed to do business with ARIN. 


As far as I know, ARIN is a
registration facilitator for a set of global resources, and one could argue
that if NASA wanted to use some for communication between here and Mars,
that would still qualify as valid and 'out of region’. 

   It would - if NASA was the requester, there’d unlikely to be any issue…

   If the request came entirely from the other end, we presently would not 
   provide services due to their lack of a meaningful legal presence in the 
   region.

[TH] So does ARIN have an expansion plan, or will the NRO need to allow for another RIR?  ... ;)

The entirety of the
current language needs to  be scrapped, and start from the perspective that
it is simply to clarify that the resources are for global use, and ARIN's
role is simply to be a facilitator within a reasonably local time-zone, and
having local language support. 

  Even under such a definition, we’d like refer the requesters from Mars to their 
  service provider for their number resource needs, as their time zone is either
  formally undefined or not be reasonably local depending on one’s perspective.

[TH]  I can certainly understand wanting to have clarity (legal or otherwise) about who is allowed to be a customer, but as I read it, that is not what this proposal is about. If the requesting ISP from Mars didn't have, or couldn't do business with their local RIR for some reason, it would be useful to have a policy that allowed at least one of the RIR's to provide service. In any case, once the resources were allocated and registered, where they are used is outside the scope of the registrar's jurisdiction, as they were and continue to be a global (universal) resource. All attempts to restrict region of use by policy, assert 'property rights' which never existed in the first place. At the end of the day, allowing ill-thought-out policy adjustments to 'manage' the IPv4 address pool will do nothing except endanger the ability to properly manage the IPv6 pool. All IPv4 policy changes should be limited to recognizing that the free-pool is exhausted, and otherwise stop.

Tony

Thanks,
/John

John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN