[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8: Reassignment records for IPv4 End-Users

[Andrew Dul]

On 8/26/2015 12:08 PM, Gary T. Giesen wrote:
> Andrew,
>
> If that's your approach, why not create policy to create one class of user,
> and remove the distinction altogether?
I have contemplated such an approach and even drafted, about 2 years 
ago, a post-IPV4-exhaustion policy rewrite, which collapsed the 
distinction between ISPs and end-users.  In discussing this idea within 
the AC and other community members, they believed at that time that was 
too much for the community to handle.  The community in the past has 
noted that omnibus style policy rewrites are generally not accepted by 
the larger community.

This policy proposal is a way to start the discussion between the ISP / 
end-user differences.  If the wider community support the idea of fully 
collapsing the two categories, we can continue that direction.  If not, 
that is OK, too.


> ISPs pay more because they receive
> more in services, and because they make money "leasing" IPs. If you make it
> so that ISPs can get the same set of services as end users (and start
> applying as end-users), then end-user fees will have to increase
> appropriately, in order to avoid decreasing ARIN's overall revenues. A lot
> of end-users will not want that, to satisfy the wants of a few very large
> orgs, for a service which they may even not know exists (and have no desire
> to use it)
>
> All I'm talking about is putting in some language to guard against obvious
> fraud, and keep costs down for end-users (since they presumably won't have
> anywhere near the ratio of SWIPs/block). It's not going to stop an ISP
> determined to go the end-user route, but will hopefully steer the
> well-meaning ISPs down the correct path and could make it easier to revoke
> blocks for blatent fraud.

Do you have any language that you'd like to see added to the draft such 
that you could support it?

> A lot of what's in the NRPM already is hard to enforce, but that doesn't
> stop us from trying to create policies for fair allocations/assignments,
> with reasonable controls. I think some plain language about what is and is
> not an acceptable SWIP for an end-user is appropriate. What I don't want to
> see if the ISP/end-user classes merging by being back-doored through a
> policy with no limits.

Some of the examples of what I thought were acceptable reassignments I 
put in the problem statement.  Would you support those types of 
reassignment records being allowed for end-users?

Andrew

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On
>> Behalf Of Andrew Dul
>> Sent: August 26, 2015 2:34 PM
>> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8: Reassignment records
> for
>> IPv4 End-Users
>>
>> Shouldn't operators get to decide and be responsible for what records they
>> put in the database?  I understand that the potential for mis-use of
> additional
>> reassignments, but there is already that potential for ISPs.  Do you feel
> that
>> we need to address mis-use with ISP reassignments too?
>>
>> One could create all sorts of "schemes" to limit the ability of ISP users
> to
>> "game" the system as end users.  Fee per reassignment record, or 10
>> reassignments per end-user w/ additional records costing more...
>>
>> Or maybe we just need to think about if the differences between ISPs and
>> end-users matter as much in a IPv4 depleted world.
>>
>> While this policy likely has downstream fee implications, it is not
> designed to
>> map to any particular fee structure.  I haven't seen any details on any
>> proposed fee changes so I could not take that into account when drafting
> this
>> policy.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> On 8/26/2015 10:18 AM, Gary T. Giesen wrote:
>>> I am opposed to the policy as written.
>>>
>>> There are few to no controls on who the end user can SWIP to, which I
>>> think will either result in ISPs applying as end-users to game the
>>> system, raise the cost for end users, or both.
>>>
>>> I assume this is trying to align the NRPM to ARIN's new fee structure
>>> which I believe is due in September?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> GTG
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net]
>>>> On Behalf Of ARIN
>>>> Sent: August 25, 2015 3:12 PM
>>>> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
>>>> Subject: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8: Reassignment records
>>>> for
>>> IPv4
>>>> End-Users
>>>>
>>>> Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8
>>>> Reassignment records for IPv4 End-Users
>>>>
>>>> On 20 August 2015 the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) accepted
>>>> "ARIN-prop-222 Reassignment records for IPv4 End-Users" as a Draft
>> Policy.
>>>> Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8 is below and can be found at:
>>>> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2015_8.html
>>>>
>>>> You are encouraged to discuss the merits and your concerns of Draft
>>>> Policy
>>>> 2015-8 on the Public Policy Mailing List.
>>>>
>>>> The AC will evaluate the discussion in order to assess the
>>>> conformance of
>>> this
>>>> draft policy with ARIN's Principles of Internet Number Resource
>>>> Policy as stated in the PDP. Specifically, these principles are:
>>>>
>>>>      * Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource Administration
>>>>      * Technically Sound
>>>>      * Supported by the Community
>>>>
>>>> The ARIN Policy Development Process (PDP) can be found at:
>>>> https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html
>>>>
>>>> Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at:
>>>> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Communications and Member Services
>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ## * ##
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8
>>>> Reassignment records for IPv4 End-Users
>>>>
>>>> Date: 25 August 2015
>>>>
>>>> Problem statement:
>>>>
>>>> End-User Organizations do not have the ability to create reassignment
>>>> records in the number resource database.
>>>>
>>>> Reassignment records can be used for a number of different functions
>>>> which could benefit the overall desire to increase database accuracy
>>>> by allowing organizations to add additional details in the database.
>>>>
>>>> The following reasons have been noted as positive reasons to allow
>>>> the creation of additional records.
>>>> - Geolocation (allows an organization to specify a different location
>>> within the
>>>> database which is used by organizations creating geo-location by IP
>>> address
>>>> databases)
>>>> - Subsidiary reassignment (allows an organization to note that a
>>>> portion
>>> of
>>>> their netblock is in use by a different subsidiary entity)
>>>> - Assignment to contracted parties (some organizations have contracts
>>>> with other organizations which are operating networks under
>>>> agreements with the registrant, this allows the top-level
>>>> organizations to accurately
>>> specify the
>>>> organization operating the network in the number resource database)
>>>> - More specific contact information (some organizations operate large
>>>> networks which don't necessarily have the same technical or abuse
>>>> contact
>>>> information)
>>>>
>>>> Policy statement:
>>>>
>>>> Create new section 4.3.x
>>>>
>>>> End-user organizations which have an active registration services
>>> agreement
>>>> shall be permitted to create reassignment records in the number
>>>> resource database. Organizations shall use the guidelines outlined in
>>>> section 4.2.3 when creating reassignment records.
>>>>
>>>> Comments:
>>>> a. Timetable for implementation: immediately b. Anything else:
>>>>
>>>> It is noted by the author of this policy proposal that one of the
>>> distinctions in
>>>> the service between ISPs and End-Users has been the ability for an
>>>> organization to create reassignment records.
>>>>
>>>> This policy proposal stretches across responsibilities areas as it
>>>> impacts number policy, ARIN operational practice, and fees.
>>>>
>>>> Below we have noted the three areas and the different responsibilities:
>>>>
>>>> A) Providing reassignment support for end-user assignments, for those
>>>> who wish to use it
>>>>
>>>> This is an ARIN Service issue - could be an suggestion/consultation
>>> process,
>>>> so long as any implied additional workload/cost can be accommodated
>>>> in budget and the community supports
>>>>
>>>> B) New requirement on end-users to provide reassignment information
>>>> in certain circumstances so that ARIN will treat their usage
>>>> assertion
>>> credibly
>>>> This is a policy issue. These requirements should be vetted through
>>>> the
>>> policy
>>>> development process.
>>>>
>>>> C) Fee Implications of ISPs moving to end-user category
>>>>
>>>> This is Board issue, but first requires a community discussion or
>>> consultation
>>>> to be held to solicit community input on desired outcome.
>>>> _______________________________________________
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