[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8: Reassignment records for IPv4 End-Users

Wed Aug 26 15:08:12 EDT 2015

Andrew,

If that's your approach, why not create policy to create one class of user,
and remove the distinction altogether? ISPs pay more because they receive
more in services, and because they make money "leasing" IPs. If you make it
so that ISPs can get the same set of services as end users (and start
applying as end-users), then end-user fees will have to increase
appropriately, in order to avoid decreasing ARIN's overall revenues. A lot
of end-users will not want that, to satisfy the wants of a few very large
orgs, for a service which they may even not know exists (and have no desire
to use it)

All I'm talking about is putting in some language to guard against obvious
fraud, and keep costs down for end-users (since they presumably won't have
anywhere near the ratio of SWIPs/block). It's not going to stop an ISP
determined to go the end-user route, but will hopefully steer the
well-meaning ISPs down the correct path and could make it easier to revoke
blocks for blatent fraud.

A lot of what's in the NRPM already is hard to enforce, but that doesn't
stop us from trying to create policies for fair allocations/assignments,
with reasonable controls. I think some plain language about what is and is
not an acceptable SWIP for an end-user is appropriate. What I don't want to
see if the ISP/end-user classes merging by being back-doored through a
policy with no limits.

Cheers,

GTG

> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On
> Behalf Of Andrew Dul
> Sent: August 26, 2015 2:34 PM
> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8: Reassignment records
for
> IPv4 End-Users
> 
> Shouldn't operators get to decide and be responsible for what records they
> put in the database?  I understand that the potential for mis-use of
additional
> reassignments, but there is already that potential for ISPs.  Do you feel
that
> we need to address mis-use with ISP reassignments too?
> 
> One could create all sorts of "schemes" to limit the ability of ISP users
to
> "game" the system as end users.  Fee per reassignment record, or 10
> reassignments per end-user w/ additional records costing more...
> 
> Or maybe we just need to think about if the differences between ISPs and
> end-users matter as much in a IPv4 depleted world.
> 
> While this policy likely has downstream fee implications, it is not
designed to
> map to any particular fee structure.  I haven't seen any details on any
> proposed fee changes so I could not take that into account when drafting
this
> policy.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> On 8/26/2015 10:18 AM, Gary T. Giesen wrote:
> > I am opposed to the policy as written.
> >
> > There are few to no controls on who the end user can SWIP to, which I
> > think will either result in ISPs applying as end-users to game the
> > system, raise the cost for end users, or both.
> >
> > I assume this is trying to align the NRPM to ARIN's new fee structure
> > which I believe is due in September?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > GTG
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net]
> >> On Behalf Of ARIN
> >> Sent: August 25, 2015 3:12 PM
> >> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
> >> Subject: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8: Reassignment records
> >> for
> > IPv4
> >> End-Users
> >>
> >> Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8
> >> Reassignment records for IPv4 End-Users
> >>
> >> On 20 August 2015 the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) accepted
> >> "ARIN-prop-222 Reassignment records for IPv4 End-Users" as a Draft
> Policy.
> >>
> >> Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8 is below and can be found at:
> >> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2015_8.html
> >>
> >> You are encouraged to discuss the merits and your concerns of Draft
> >> Policy
> >> 2015-8 on the Public Policy Mailing List.
> >>
> >> The AC will evaluate the discussion in order to assess the
> >> conformance of
> > this
> >> draft policy with ARIN's Principles of Internet Number Resource
> >> Policy as stated in the PDP. Specifically, these principles are:
> >>
> >>     * Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource Administration
> >>     * Technically Sound
> >>     * Supported by the Community
> >>
> >> The ARIN Policy Development Process (PDP) can be found at:
> >> https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html
> >>
> >> Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at:
> >> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Communications and Member Services
> >> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
> >>
> >>
> >> ## * ##
> >>
> >>
> >> Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8
> >> Reassignment records for IPv4 End-Users
> >>
> >> Date: 25 August 2015
> >>
> >> Problem statement:
> >>
> >> End-User Organizations do not have the ability to create reassignment
> >> records in the number resource database.
> >>
> >> Reassignment records can be used for a number of different functions
> >> which could benefit the overall desire to increase database accuracy
> >> by allowing organizations to add additional details in the database.
> >>
> >> The following reasons have been noted as positive reasons to allow
> >> the creation of additional records.
> >> - Geolocation (allows an organization to specify a different location
> > within the
> >> database which is used by organizations creating geo-location by IP
> > address
> >> databases)
> >> - Subsidiary reassignment (allows an organization to note that a
> >> portion
> > of
> >> their netblock is in use by a different subsidiary entity)
> >> - Assignment to contracted parties (some organizations have contracts
> >> with other organizations which are operating networks under
> >> agreements with the registrant, this allows the top-level
> >> organizations to accurately
> > specify the
> >> organization operating the network in the number resource database)
> >> - More specific contact information (some organizations operate large
> >> networks which don't necessarily have the same technical or abuse
> >> contact
> >> information)
> >>
> >> Policy statement:
> >>
> >> Create new section 4.3.x
> >>
> >> End-user organizations which have an active registration services
> > agreement
> >> shall be permitted to create reassignment records in the number
> >> resource database. Organizations shall use the guidelines outlined in
> >> section 4.2.3 when creating reassignment records.
> >>
> >> Comments:
> >> a. Timetable for implementation: immediately b. Anything else:
> >>
> >> It is noted by the author of this policy proposal that one of the
> > distinctions in
> >> the service between ISPs and End-Users has been the ability for an
> >> organization to create reassignment records.
> >>
> >> This policy proposal stretches across responsibilities areas as it
> >> impacts number policy, ARIN operational practice, and fees.
> >>
> >> Below we have noted the three areas and the different responsibilities:
> >>
> >> A) Providing reassignment support for end-user assignments, for those
> >> who wish to use it
> >>
> >> This is an ARIN Service issue - could be an suggestion/consultation
> > process,
> >> so long as any implied additional workload/cost can be accommodated
> >> in budget and the community supports
> >>
> >> B) New requirement on end-users to provide reassignment information
> >> in certain circumstances so that ARIN will treat their usage
> >> assertion
> > credibly
> >> This is a policy issue. These requirements should be vetted through
> >> the
> > policy
> >> development process.
> >>
> >> C) Fee Implications of ISPs moving to end-user category
> >>
> >> This is Board issue, but first requires a community discussion or
> > consultation
> >> to be held to solicit community input on desired outcome.
> >> _______________________________________________
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