[arin-ppml] 2015-8

[Rudolph Daniel]

"This policy proposal stretches across responsibilities areas as it impacts
> number policy, ARIN operational practice, and fees."

What would the result of orgs. being allowed to create re assignment
records, yet failing to do so? Or, what would be their motivation to
maintain an acceptible level of accuracy?
RD
On Aug 26, 2015 1:19 PM, <arin-ppml-request at arin.net> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Thoughts on 2015-7 (Mike Burns)
>    2. Re: ARIN-PPML 2015-7 (John Santos)
>    3. Re: Thoughts on 2015-7 (Brett Frankenberger)
>    4. Re: Thoughts on 2015-7 (Gary T. Giesen)
>    5. Advisory Council Meeting Results - August 2015 (ARIN)
>    6. Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8: Reassignment records for IPv4
>       End-Users (ARIN)
>    7. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8: Reassignment records for    IPv4
>       End-Users (Gary T. Giesen)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 12:45:19 -0400
> From: Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com>
> To: Scott Leibrand <scottleibrand at gmail.com>, William Herrin
>         <bill at herrin.us>
> Cc: "arin-ppml at arin.net" <ppml at arin.net>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Thoughts on 2015-7
> Message-ID: <xwu2pti3ccbtb0e2vu0cpahe.1440175519589 at email.android.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I support the proposal.
>
> Regards,
> Mike Burns
>
>
> Sent from my Sprint phone
>
> <div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Scott Leibrand <
> scottleibrand at gmail.com> </div><div>Date:08/21/2015  11:14 AM
> (GMT-05:00) </div><div>To: William Herrin <bill at herrin.us> </div><div>Cc:
> "arin-ppml at arin.net" <ppml at arin.net> </div><div>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml]
> Thoughts on 2015-7 </div><div>
> </div>
> > On Aug 20, 2015, at 1:30 PM, William Herrin <bill at herrin.us> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 3:46 PM, Rob Seastrom <rs-lists at seastrom.com>
> wrote:
> >> 8.1.x Simplified requirements for demonstrated need for IPv4 transfers
> >>
> >> IPv4 transfer recipients must demonstrate (and an officer of the
> >> requesting organization must attest) that they will use at least 50% of
> >> their aggregate IPv4 addresses (including the requested resources) on an
> >> operational network within 24 months.
> >
> > Howdy,
> >
> > Still against it because it still applies to out-region transfers
> > where ARIN no longer has access to it and CAN NOT revoke it for fraud
> > when the attestation turns out to be untrue.
>
> Actually, it does not apply to the recipients of out-of-region transfers.
> NRPM 8.4 states that "The conditions on a recipient outside of the ARIN
> region will be defined by the policies of the receiving RIR."
>
> This proposed language would only apply to 8.3 and 8.4 transfer recipients
> in the ARIN region.
>
> -Scott
> _______________________________________________
> PPML
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 15:21:31 -0400
> From: John Santos <JOHN at egh.com>
> To: Rudolph Daniel <rudi.daniel at gmail.com>
> Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-PPML 2015-7
> Message-ID: <1150821152043.15636D-100000 at joonya.egh.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Opposed, based on reasons expressed by Rudi and Owen.
>
> --
> John Santos
> Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.
> 781-861-0670 ext 539
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 17:52:35 -0500
> From: Brett Frankenberger <rbf+arin-ppml at panix.com>
> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Thoughts on 2015-7
> Message-ID: <20150823225235.GA28701 at panix.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 06:14:59PM -0700, Matthew Kaufman wrote:
> > On 8/20/2015 1:04 PM, Brian Jones wrote:
> > >
> > >?I agree with this simplified requirement but would even be willing to
> > >accept a 50% within 12 months and 75% in 24 months requirement. Two
> years
> > >is a long time to tie up valuable resources that are not being used.
> IMHO?
> >
> > I do not understand this reasoning. There is no more free pool. If Org A
> is
> > not using "valuable resources" and they are transferred to Org B who was
> > mistaken about how fast they will use them, then Org B is also not using
> > "valuable resources". But if instead Org A can't transfer them, then Org
> B
> > doesn't get them and Org A still has "valuable resources" which are "tied
> > up". They're "tied up" not being used either way... and ARIN can't do
> > anything about it.
>
> This analysis ignores the existance of Org C that had a need that can
> be justified under ARIN policies as they exist today.
>
> If Org A wants to transfer and can't transfer to Org B, Org A probably
> won't keep them sitting on the shelf; chances are they'll find Org C or
> D or E or ...
>
>      -- Brett
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 11:26:13 -0400
> From: "Gary T. Giesen" <ggiesen+arin-ppml at giesen.me>
> To: <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Thoughts on 2015-7
> Message-ID: <073701d0de81$369d4b90$a3d7e2b0$@giesen.me>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="utf-8"
>
> I am opposed to the proposal, for the reasons Owen and Rob describe.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 15:11:57 -0400
> From: ARIN <info at arin.net>
> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: [arin-ppml] Advisory Council Meeting Results - August 2015
> Message-ID: <55DCBDFD.3080405 at arin.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> In accordance with the ARIN Policy Development Process (PDP), the ARIN
> Advisory Council (AC) met on 20 August 2015.
>
> The AC accepted the following as a Draft Policy (it will be
> posted for discussion):
>
>    ARIN-prop-222 Reassignment records for IPv4 End-Users
>
> The AC is continuing to work on:
>
>    Recommended Draft Policy ARIN-2015-1: Modification to Criteria for
> IPv6 Initial End-User Assignments
>    Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4 (Inter-RIR Transfers to
> Specified Recipients)
>    Draft Policy ARIN-2015-3: Remove 30 day utilization requirement in
> end-user IPv4 policy
>    Recommended Draft Policy ARIN-2015-4: Modify 8.2 section to better
> reflect how ARIN handles reorganizations
>    Draft Policy ARIN-2015-5: Out of region use
>    Draft Policy ARIN-2015-6: Transfers and Multi-national Networks
>    Draft Policy ARIN-2015-7: Simplified requirements for demonstrated
> need for IPv4 transfers
>
> Draft Policy and Proposal texts are available at:
> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html
>
> The ARIN Policy Development Process can be found at:
> https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html
>
> Regards,
>
> Communications and Member Services
> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 15:12:13 -0400
> From: ARIN <info at arin.net>
> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8: Reassignment records
>         for IPv4        End-Users
> Message-ID: <55DCBE0D.8010802 at arin.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8
> Reassignment records for IPv4 End-Users
>
> On 20 August 2015 the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) accepted "ARIN-prop-222
> Reassignment records for IPv4 End-Users" as a Draft Policy.
>
> Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8 is below and can be found at:
> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2015_8.html
>
> You are encouraged to discuss the merits and your concerns of Draft
> Policy 2015-8 on the Public Policy Mailing List.
>
> The AC will evaluate the discussion in order to assess the conformance
> of this draft policy with ARIN's Principles of Internet Number Resource
> Policy as stated in the PDP. Specifically, these principles are:
>
>     * Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource Administration
>     * Technically Sound
>     * Supported by the Community
>
> The ARIN Policy Development Process (PDP) can be found at:
> https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html
>
> Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at:
> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html
>
> Regards,
>
> Communications and Member Services
> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>
>
> ## * ##
>
>
> Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8
> Reassignment records for IPv4 End-Users
>
> Date: 25 August 2015
>
> Problem statement:
>
> End-User Organizations do not have the ability to create reassignment
> records in the number resource database.
>
> Reassignment records can be used for a number of different functions
> which could benefit the overall desire to increase database accuracy by
> allowing organizations to add additional details in the database.
>
> The following reasons have been noted as positive reasons to allow the
> creation of additional records.
> - Geolocation (allows an organization to specify a different location
> within the database which is used by organizations creating geo-location
> by IP address databases)
> - Subsidiary reassignment (allows an organization to note that a portion
> of their netblock is in use by a different subsidiary entity)
> - Assignment to contracted parties (some organizations have contracts
> with other organizations which are operating networks under agreements
> with the registrant, this allows the top-level organizations to
> accurately specify the organization operating the network in the number
> resource database)
> - More specific contact information (some organizations operate large
> networks which don't necessarily have the same technical or abuse
> contact information)
>
> Policy statement:
>
> Create new section 4.3.x
>
> End-user organizations which have an active registration services
> agreement shall be permitted to create reassignment records in the
> number resource database. Organizations shall use the guidelines
> outlined in section 4.2.3 when creating reassignment records.
>
> Comments:
> a. Timetable for implementation: immediately
> b. Anything else:
>
> It is noted by the author of this policy proposal that one of the
> distinctions in the service between ISPs and End-Users has been the
> ability for an organization to create reassignment records.
>
> This policy proposal stretches across responsibilities areas as it
> impacts number policy, ARIN operational practice, and fees.
>
> Below we have noted the three areas and the different responsibilities:
>
> A) Providing reassignment support for end-user assignments, for those
> who wish to use it
>
> This is an ARIN Service issue - could be an suggestion/consultation
> process, so long as any implied additional workload/cost can be
> accommodated in budget and the community supports
>
> B) New requirement on end-users to provide reassignment information in
> certain circumstances so that ARIN will treat their usage assertion
> credibly
>
> This is a policy issue. These requirements should be vetted through the
> policy development process.
>
> C) Fee Implications of ISPs moving to end-user category
>
> This is Board issue, but first requires a community discussion or
> consultation to be held to solicit community input on desired outcome.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 13:18:43 -0400
> From: "Gary T. Giesen" <ggiesen+arin-ppml at giesen.me>
> To: <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8: Reassignment
>         records for     IPv4    End-Users
> Message-ID: <009201d0e023$42c24710$c846d530$@giesen.me>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
> I am opposed to the policy as written.
>
> There are few to no controls on who the end user can SWIP to, which I think
> will either result in ISPs applying as end-users to game the system, raise
> the cost for end users, or both.
>
> I assume this is trying to align the NRPM to ARIN's new fee structure which
> I believe is due in September?
>
> Cheers,
>
> GTG
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On
> > Behalf Of ARIN
> > Sent: August 25, 2015 3:12 PM
> > To: arin-ppml at arin.net
> > Subject: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8: Reassignment records for
> IPv4
> > End-Users
> >
> > Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8
> > Reassignment records for IPv4 End-Users
> >
> > On 20 August 2015 the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) accepted "ARIN-prop-222
> > Reassignment records for IPv4 End-Users" as a Draft Policy.
> >
> > Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8 is below and can be found at:
> > https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2015_8.html
> >
> > You are encouraged to discuss the merits and your concerns of Draft
> Policy
> > 2015-8 on the Public Policy Mailing List.
> >
> > The AC will evaluate the discussion in order to assess the conformance of
> this
> > draft policy with ARIN's Principles of Internet Number Resource Policy as
> > stated in the PDP. Specifically, these principles are:
> >
> >     * Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource Administration
> >     * Technically Sound
> >     * Supported by the Community
> >
> > The ARIN Policy Development Process (PDP) can be found at:
> > https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html
> >
> > Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at:
> > https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Communications and Member Services
> > American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
> >
> >
> > ## * ##
> >
> >
> > Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8
> > Reassignment records for IPv4 End-Users
> >
> > Date: 25 August 2015
> >
> > Problem statement:
> >
> > End-User Organizations do not have the ability to create reassignment
> > records in the number resource database.
> >
> > Reassignment records can be used for a number of different functions
> which
> > could benefit the overall desire to increase database accuracy by
> allowing
> > organizations to add additional details in the database.
> >
> > The following reasons have been noted as positive reasons to allow the
> > creation of additional records.
> > - Geolocation (allows an organization to specify a different location
> within the
> > database which is used by organizations creating geo-location by IP
> address
> > databases)
> > - Subsidiary reassignment (allows an organization to note that a portion
> of
> > their netblock is in use by a different subsidiary entity)
> > - Assignment to contracted parties (some organizations have contracts
> with
> > other organizations which are operating networks under agreements with
> > the registrant, this allows the top-level organizations to accurately
> specify the
> > organization operating the network in the number resource database)
> > - More specific contact information (some organizations operate large
> > networks which don't necessarily have the same technical or abuse contact
> > information)
> >
> > Policy statement:
> >
> > Create new section 4.3.x
> >
> > End-user organizations which have an active registration services
> agreement
> > shall be permitted to create reassignment records in the number resource
> > database. Organizations shall use the guidelines outlined in section
> 4.2.3
> > when creating reassignment records.
> >
> > Comments:
> > a. Timetable for implementation: immediately b. Anything else:
> >
> > It is noted by the author of this policy proposal that one of the
> distinctions in
> > the service between ISPs and End-Users has been the ability for an
> > organization to create reassignment records.
> >
> > This policy proposal stretches across responsibilities areas as it
> impacts
> > number policy, ARIN operational practice, and fees.
> >
> > Below we have noted the three areas and the different responsibilities:
> >
> > A) Providing reassignment support for end-user assignments, for those who
> > wish to use it
> >
> > This is an ARIN Service issue - could be an suggestion/consultation
> process,
> > so long as any implied additional workload/cost can be accommodated in
> > budget and the community supports
> >
> > B) New requirement on end-users to provide reassignment information in
> > certain circumstances so that ARIN will treat their usage assertion
> credibly
> >
> > This is a policy issue. These requirements should be vetted through the
> policy
> > development process.
> >
> > C) Fee Implications of ISPs moving to end-user category
> >
> > This is Board issue, but first requires a community discussion or
> consultation
> > to be held to solicit community input on desired outcome.
> > _______________________________________________
> > PPML
> > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
> > Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net).
> > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
> > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> ARIN-PPML at arin.net
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>
> End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 122, Issue 23
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