[arin-ppml] About needs basis in 8.3 transfers

[John Curran]

On Jun 12, 2014, at 10:05 AM, Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com> wrote:

> What you are saying is that zombie corporations are real, and are a legal and policy-compliant option for those who don't like the needs test.

No, not at all.  What I am saying is that we have seen address blocks
hijacked by organizations (or routed via false LOA) which are only 
going to use the address space for a short-period.  

> You are also saying that corporations who don't like the needs test are also purchasing options on the IP address holdings of other companies, effectively controlling those addresses although not having them registered.

Are you suggesting that ARIN should become involved in a private contract
between two organizations that doesn't involve transfer of the registration
of an address block, but only future potential of same?

I can enter into an agreement with you that you will not sell a book (or 
your car, or your laptop) to another party within first coming to me; that 
is likely to be seen as valid contractual agreement that does not involve 
any other parties.

> Would you also say that corporations which go this option route, and corporations which purchase zombie companies would actually prefer to be the listed registrants?  In my experience they would prefer this.

I have no idea; you would expect that they'd perform a transfer in accordance 
with community policy if they preferred that route.

> Excepting spammers, who usually lease, not purchase, space for obvious reasons,

Exactly to Owen's point... there are parties which do not desire accurate 
registration for their own reasons, and these parties are quite willing to
permanently transfer address space if it meets their needs.  

> and who have no part in this conversation.

That is correct only to the extent that there is not a high overlap between 
those who wish to bypass the community policy and those who wish to operate 
various spam & botnet services.  I imagine there are parties that want to 
interconnect with the other service providers for legitimate business but 
still not follow their policies, but such disingenuous behavior is frequently
shown by those abuse the network.

FYI,
/John

John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN