[arin-ppml] Simple question to simplify the rhetoric..

John Curran jcurran at arin.net
Fri Jun 6 14:41:37 EDT 2014


Jason -

   Are you asking with respect to new issuance from the IPv4 free pool, or
   with respect to IPv4 transfers, or both?   Some folks might choose a
   different answer from your list depending on which one you are referring.

Thanks,
/John

John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN

On Jun 6, 2014, at 2:29 PM, Jason Schiller <jschiller at google.com<mailto:jschiller at google.com>> wrote:

I think the question here is does justified need provide value to the community in creating "fairness"?

A. Yes, keep measuring justified need as we always have.

B. Yes, keep measuring justified need as we always have until something better comes along.

C. Yes, I'm not sure this is the most fair, but it has been the rules of the game, and doesn't seem right to change the rules so close to the finish line (especially when people's IPv6 adoption plans are depending on it).

D. Yes, but there is a specific problem that results in some class being treated unfairly, so a tweak or two is required.

E. Yes, but a needs test only makes sense when addresses can be acquired unrestricted or with flat or tiered pricing or even per low priced IP address pricing.  In a limited market, price is the most efficient and most fair mechanism.

F. No, there is a better mechanism that is "more fair" we should switch to that immediately.

G. Its not justified need isn't fair, but rather the fact that there are a class of users whose justified need will not be fulfilled, such as individuals (not an organization) or organizations that need only a small amount of addressing (less than a /24 which is the arbitrary limit for inetr-AS routing to keep tables small).

H. Unrelated... while the current needs based justification is fair, the process is difficult and the end result favors large organizations, those who are growing rapidly (and thus repeated ask for space), those with a dedicated IP management team, those with a dedicated legal team...  The process (not the policy) is unfair.

__Jason



On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 1:40 PM, John Von Stein <John at qxccommunications.com<mailto:John at qxccommunications.com>> wrote:

My 2-cents on this thread …



Having been in the commodity/derivative/equity trading businesses for 25 years before starting an ISP I concur that a Market will likely evolve for US IPv4.  The fundamentals of Supply and Demand for IPv4 will prevail.  It’s probably happening already, akin to the “dark pools” of off-exchange trading that were siphoning large amounts of trading volume away from the regulated equity exchanges.  This community, including ARIN, can either embrace and guide this tectonic shift from single source of IP (ARIN) to a Market of IP address suppliers / consumers from the playing field or else be left with absolute control over  essentially an empty bag of allocations and watching the aftermarket activity from the sideline.


Thank you,
John W. Von Stein

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-----Original Message-----
From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net>] On Behalf Of Steven Ryerse
Sent: Friday, June 6, 2014 1:26 PM
To: Michael Peddemors; arin-ppml at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Simple question to simplify the rhetoric..



Of course those are not the only two options.



We could choose C: Open up the market by removing needs testing along the lines of what RIPE is doing and let the market work that out.



We could also D: Embrace and join the private market that has sprung up outside of ARIN and legitimize it and work closely with it at the policy level.  (This has the added benefit of improving the accuracy of the Database.)



There are probably other options.



Steven Ryerse

President

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-----Original Message-----

From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Michael Peddemors

Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 11:33 AM

To: arin-ppml at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>

Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Simple question to simplify the rhetoric..



On 14-06-06 08:21 AM, John Curran wrote:

> On Jun 6, 2014, at 10:50 AM, Michael Peddemors <michael at linuxmagic.com<mailto:michael at linuxmagic.com>> wrote:

>

>> Why don't we first of all all express our simple votes..

>>

>> A) Leave the current system alone, and let the free market work it

>> out

>> B) Enpower ARIN with more abilities to 'judge' who gets the remaining

>> space

>

> Michael -

>

>     In particular, there are the requirements for receiving space from the regional

>     free pool versus requirements for being a recipient of a market transfer.



Understood of course, however I believe a consensus or even a productive conversation in either case can't be had, unless the community first agrees in principle to a fundamental change in ARIN's role, where it is transfer's or allocation of new IP(s).







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