[arin-ppml] Simple question to simplify the rhetoric..

Jason Schiller jschiller at google.com
Fri Jun 6 14:29:25 EDT 2014


I think the question here is does justified need provide value to the
community in creating "fairness"?

A. Yes, keep measuring justified need as we always have.

B. Yes, keep measuring justified need as we always have until something
better comes along.

C. Yes, I'm not sure this is the most fair, but it has been the rules of
the game, and doesn't seem right to change the rules so close to the finish
line (especially when people's IPv6 adoption plans are depending on it).

D. Yes, but there is a specific problem that results in some class being
treated unfairly, so a tweak or two is required.

E. Yes, but a needs test only makes sense when addresses can be acquired
unrestricted or with flat or tiered pricing or even per low priced IP
address pricing.  In a limited market, price is the most efficient and most
fair mechanism.

F. No, there is a better mechanism that is "more fair" we should switch to
that immediately.

G. Its not justified need isn't fair, but rather the fact that there are a
class of users whose justified need will not be fulfilled, such as
individuals (not an organization) or organizations that need only a small
amount of addressing (less than a /24 which is the arbitrary limit for
inetr-AS routing to keep tables small).

H. Unrelated... while the current needs based justification is fair, the
process is difficult and the end result favors large organizations, those
who are growing rapidly (and thus repeated ask for space), those with a
dedicated IP management team, those with a dedicated legal team...  The
process (not the policy) is unfair.

__Jason



On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 1:40 PM, John Von Stein <John at qxccommunications.com>
wrote:

>  My 2-cents on this thread …
>
>
>
> Having been in the commodity/derivative/equity trading businesses for 25
> years before starting an ISP I concur that a Market will likely evolve for
> US IPv4.  The fundamentals of Supply and Demand for IPv4 will prevail.
> It’s probably happening already, akin to the “dark pools” of off-exchange
> trading that were siphoning large amounts of trading volume away from the
> regulated equity exchanges.  This community, including ARIN, can either
> embrace and guide this tectonic shift from single source of IP (ARIN) to a
> Market of IP address suppliers / consumers from the playing field or else
> be left with absolute control over  essentially an empty bag of allocations
> and watching the aftermarket activity from the sideline.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> John W. Von Stein
>
>
>
> [image: cid:sigimg0 at 791f5d9d52446f85c6fed00adec61823]
>
>
>
> 102 NE 2nd Street
>
> Suite 136
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>
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> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
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>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On
> Behalf Of Steven Ryerse
> Sent: Friday, June 6, 2014 1:26 PM
> To: Michael Peddemors; arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Simple question to simplify the rhetoric..
>
>
>
> Of course those are not the only two options.
>
>
>
> We could choose C: Open up the market by removing needs testing along the
> lines of what RIPE is doing and let the market work that out.
>
>
>
> We could also D: Embrace and join the private market that has sprung up
> outside of ARIN and legitimize it and work closely with it at the policy
> level.  (This has the added benefit of improving the accuracy of the
> Database.)
>
>
>
> There are probably other options.
>
>
>
> Steven Ryerse
>
> President
>
> 100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA  30338
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>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net
> <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net>] On Behalf Of Michael Peddemors
>
> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 11:33 AM
>
> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Simple question to simplify the rhetoric..
>
>
>
> On 14-06-06 08:21 AM, John Curran wrote:
>
> > On Jun 6, 2014, at 10:50 AM, Michael Peddemors <michael at linuxmagic.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> Why don't we first of all all express our simple votes..
>
> >>
>
> >> A) Leave the current system alone, and let the free market work it
>
> >> out
>
> >> B) Enpower ARIN with more abilities to 'judge' who gets the remaining
>
> >> space
>
> >
>
> > Michael -
>
> >
>
> >     In particular, there are the requirements for receiving space from
> the regional
>
> >     free pool versus requirements for being a recipient of a market
> transfer.
>
>
>
> Understood of course, however I believe a consensus or even a productive
> conversation in either case can't be had, unless the community first agrees
> in principle to a fundamental change in ARIN's role, where it is transfer's
> or allocation of new IP(s).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> "Catch the Magic of Linux..."
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Michael Peddemors, President/CEO LinuxMagic Inc.
>
> Visit us at http://www.linuxmagic.com @linuxmagic
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-- 
_______________________________________________________
Jason Schiller|NetOps|jschiller at google.com|571-266-0006
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