[arin-ppml] 2014-2 8.4 Anti-flip Language

[Bill Darte]

Sure, I think I agreed with you....but it remains in my mind a stop-gap (or
should be) until such time the baking is complete and too much emphasis on
free-market transfers simply lowers the oven temperature....

bd


On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 7:23 PM, George Herbert <george.herbert at gmail.com>wrote:

> I object to the viewpoint that we should use policy to confuse things so
> that IPv6 is more attractive sooner.  There are systemic risks with IPv4
> runout and inflexibility prior to IPv6 being fully baked in the
> works-for-everyone sense.  The time to have made those adjustments was 2008
> or so, not now.
>
> If we're going to go back to recent history for economic lessons, the Fed
> letting Lehman Brothers crash is a good one.  They were trying to make a
> couple of points, too, but the collateral damage nearly caused a
> depression...
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>
>> This, too.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 6:33 AM, Bill Darte <billdarte at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'll not answer for Owen, but your question prompts me to say that the
>> transfer market is not a goodness.  It was, in my mind, a reasonable yet
>> distasteful stop gap on the way toward a once again more unified protocol
>> environment...to wit.. IPv6.
>>
>> My market theory suggest that transfer market at its free-est and most
>> open deters and confuses the way forward.  The purpose of standards is to
>> eliminate confusion and choices which require understanding investment
>> options and application consequences.  While standards have their downside,
>> one of them is not those elements of marketplace choice.
>>
>> The more options existing the more confused.  Investment=legacy.
>>  End-users must predict and interpret, making decisions that may come back
>> to haunt. Developers delay their innovation in order to better understand
>> whether they're investing in a blind technology. Transport providers must
>> deploy and support more complicated configurations with their limited
>> funds, inevitably satisfying some an thwarting others.
>>
>> Would that the transfer market and all efforts to prolong IPv4 come to an
>> end quickly IMO.
>>
>> End of soapbox
>>
>> bd
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 7:13 AM, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 5:20 AM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > On Feb 23, 2014, at 6:32 PM, David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu> wrote:
>>> >> ...
>>> >> I've been thinking about this maybe the restrictions for
>>> anti-flipping don't belong in section 8 at all.  Maybe they belong in
>>> section 4 as they are intended to protect the ARIN IPv4 free pool.
>>> >
>>> > I disagree. I don't want to see flipping become a tool for speculation
>>> in the market post-exhaustion, any more than I want to see it become a tool
>>> for draining the free pool. In fact, I think that the former might be
>>> significantly more harmful than the latter at this point.
>>>
>>> Owen -
>>>
>>>   Could you elaborate your thoughts regarding the harm that might occur?
>>>
>>>   I believe that folks understand risks associated with
>>> sudden/unexpected IPv4 free
>>>   pool depletion, but you are suggesting that liquidity itself in the
>>> IPv4 transfer
>>>   market is harmful.  As that is neither obvious nor aligned with most
>>> market theory,
>>>   it would be best for you to elaborate your thoughts some on that
>>> aspect.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> /John
>>>
>>> John Curran
>>> President and CEO
>>> ARIN
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> -george william herbert
> george.herbert at gmail.com
>
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