[arin-ppml] Bootstrapping new entrants after IPv4 exhaustion

[Cathy Aronson]

Yup that's true about revenue generation but the other RIRs seem thrilled to have the new members and the "little guys" can still get that one final /22.

Cathy

Sent from a handheld device.

On Nov 23, 2013, at 9:37 PM, joel jaeggli <joelja at bogus.com> wrote:

> On 11/22/13, 2:32 PM, CJ Aronson wrote:
>> This is why RIPE and APNIC both have their last /8 policy.  Anyone can
>> get a /22 once out of the last /8 (til there are no more).  Both are now
>> signing up tons of new customers.   Both are generating a large amount
>> of revenue.   The small guys can all get their /22.  Just sayin'
> 
> Revenue generation is wierdly, not goal of RIR operation.
> 
>> -----Cathy
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 3:25 PM, Kevin Blumberg <kevinb at thewire.ca
>> <mailto:kevinb at thewire.ca>> wrote:
>> 
>>    David,
>> 
>>    There are going to be lots of reasons why an ISP can't provide space
>>    to a downstream post run out, even when on paper they have space.
>> 
>>    1) Space dedicated to another region
>>    2) Cost Prohibitive for downstream due to cost recovery.
>>    3) Forward looking project that fits within the 24 month window.
>> 
>>    I can see the conversation now.
>> 
>>    Downstream: I need a /24 of IP space
>>    Upstream: NO
>>    Downstream: Ok, I'm telling on you.
>>    Upstream: We didn't sign the contract, find someone else to provide
>>    service.
>> 
>>    In a primary market there are going to be "others". In a secondary
>>    market you will be out of luck.
>> 
>>    We can't wrap this policy in a complicated beat stick. If a company
>>    has a need for an initial allocation
>>    They are going to have to go to the transfer market. We should be
>>    able to give them the initial allocation without adding complexity.
>> 
>>    Thanks,
>> 
>>    Kevin
>>    -----Original Message-----
>>    From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net>
>>    [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net
>>    <mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net>] On Behalf Of David Farmer
>>    Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 2:26 PM
>>    To: Brandon Ross; Jo Rhett
>>    Cc: ARIN-PPML List
>>    Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Bootstrapping new entrants after IPv4
>>    exhaustion
>> 
>>    On 11/22/13, 08:50 , Brandon Ross wrote:
>>> On Thu, 21 Nov 2013, Jo Rhett wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I'd like to see some actual documented issues with this. Almost
>>>> everyone I know is sitting on large amounts of smaller blocks they
>>>> can easily allocate to people. It's the larger (/21 or greater)
>>>> blocks which are becoming scarce.
>>> 
>>> What kind of documentation are you looking for?
>> 
>>    I would think an a copy of an email or a letter from the upstream
>>    which confirms the upstream can't/won't provide them address space,
>>    for some reason other than they don't think the customer justifies
>>    additional address space.
>> 
>>    It is unfair for ARIN to withhold address space because the upstream
>>    has address space but won't provide it to the requester for what
>>    ever reason.  I think it is reasonable to require some confirming
>>    documentation that the upstream is not providing address space.  You
>>    can't just "say" your ISP is not providing it.
>> 
>>    However, if an ISP is saying you don't justify additional address
>>    space, then you shouldn't qualify for address space from ARIN under
>>    an exception like this.
>> 
>>    Also, ARIN should be able to refuse if they feel there is collusion
>>    between an ISP and a requester.
>> 
>>    Thanks.
>>    --
>>    ================================================
>>    David Farmer               Email: farmer at umn.edu <mailto:farmer at umn.edu>
>>    Office of Information Technology
>>    University of Minnesota
>>    2218 University Ave SE     Phone: 1-612-626-0815 <tel:1-612-626-0815>
>>    Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029  Cell: 1-612-812-9952
>>    <tel:1-612-812-9952> ================================================
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>> 
>> 
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