[arin-ppml] Bootstrapping new entrants after IPv4 exhaustion

[CJ Aronson]

This is why RIPE and APNIC both have their last /8 policy.  Anyone can get
a /22 once out of the last /8 (til there are no more).  Both are now
signing up tons of new customers.   Both are generating a large amount of
revenue.   The small guys can all get their /22.  Just sayin'

-----Cathy


On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 3:25 PM, Kevin Blumberg <kevinb at thewire.ca> wrote:

> David,
>
> There are going to be lots of reasons why an ISP can't provide space to a
> downstream post run out, even when on paper they have space.
>
> 1) Space dedicated to another region
> 2) Cost Prohibitive for downstream due to cost recovery.
> 3) Forward looking project that fits within the 24 month window.
>
> I can see the conversation now.
>
> Downstream: I need a /24 of IP space
> Upstream: NO
> Downstream: Ok, I'm telling on you.
> Upstream: We didn't sign the contract, find someone else to provide
> service.
>
> In a primary market there are going to be "others". In a secondary market
> you will be out of luck.
>
> We can't wrap this policy in a complicated beat stick. If a company has a
> need for an initial allocation
> They are going to have to go to the transfer market. We should be able to
> give them the initial allocation without adding complexity.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kevin
> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On
> Behalf Of David Farmer
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 2:26 PM
> To: Brandon Ross; Jo Rhett
> Cc: ARIN-PPML List
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Bootstrapping new entrants after IPv4 exhaustion
>
> On 11/22/13, 08:50 , Brandon Ross wrote:
> > On Thu, 21 Nov 2013, Jo Rhett wrote:
> >
> >> I'd like to see some actual documented issues with this. Almost
> >> everyone I know is sitting on large amounts of smaller blocks they
> >> can easily allocate to people. It's the larger (/21 or greater)
> >> blocks which are becoming scarce.
> >
> > What kind of documentation are you looking for?
>
> I would think an a copy of an email or a letter from the upstream which
> confirms the upstream can't/won't provide them address space, for some
> reason other than they don't think the customer justifies additional
> address space.
>
> It is unfair for ARIN to withhold address space because the upstream has
> address space but won't provide it to the requester for what ever reason.
>  I think it is reasonable to require some confirming documentation that the
> upstream is not providing address space.  You can't just "say" your ISP is
> not providing it.
>
> However, if an ISP is saying you don't justify additional address space,
> then you shouldn't qualify for address space from ARIN under an exception
> like this.
>
> Also, ARIN should be able to refuse if they feel there is collusion
> between an ISP and a requester.
>
> Thanks.
> --
> ================================================
> David Farmer               Email: farmer at umn.edu
> Office of Information Technology
> University of Minnesota
> 2218 University Ave SE     Phone: 1-612-626-0815
> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029  Cell: 1-612-812-9952================================================
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