[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles - revised

Blake Dunlap ikiris at gmail.com
Thu Jul 11 17:17:47 EDT 2013


Agree 100%

-Blake


On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Chris Grundemann <cgrundemann at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Steven Ryerse
> <SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com> wrote:
> > I agree wholeheartedly.  I noted in one of Tony's past comments that he
> said "Originally, the RIRs were intended to "facilitate distribution", not
> be hoarding gatekeepers."  We need to get on with facilitating right sized
> distributions and stop trying to somehow save IPv4 thru conservation.
>
> OK, this sounds more and more like a semantics debate at this point.
>
> Steve and Tony especially seem to be opposed to their own
> interpretation of what the word conservation means, rather than the
> actual use here in this proposed text. The use of the term
> conservation here is to mean "prevention of waste" NOT 'stockpiling in
> the free pool.'
>
> I will point you again to the definition I used earlier: "Conservation
> is generally held to include the management of human use of natural
> resources for current public benefit and sustainable social and
> economic utilization."
>
> We are talking about managing the Internet number resources (ASN,
> IPv4, and IPv6) for public benefit and sustainable utilization. We are
> NOT talking about preserving the free pool at any cost. This is
> exactly why I feel the need to correct those folks who are trying to
> twist this into a free pool issue - it is not. The free pool was a
> tool used to support conservation, not the other way around.
>
> Read the principle statement again: "The principle of conservation
> guarantees sustainability of the Internet through efficient
> utilization of unique number resources." Where does that sentence say
> that we should be "hoarding gatekeepers" or "withholding a resource"?
>
> $0.02
> ~Chris
>
> > Steven L Ryerse
> > President
> > 100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA  30338
> > 770.656.1460 - Cell
> > 770.399.9099 - Office
> > 770.392-0076 - Fax
> >
> > ℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc.
> >                      Conquering Complex Networks℠
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On
> Behalf Of Tony Hain
> > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 4:13 PM
> > To: 'Chris Grundemann'; 'Mike Burns'
> > Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net
> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles -
> revised
> >
> > I am opposed as written:::
> >
> > Chris Grundemann wrote:
> >> On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Mike Burns <mike at nationwideinc.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > I see conservation not as a principle, I mean really the guiding
> >> > principle should have been distribution of addresses, not
> >> > conservation
> > of
> >> them.
> >> > The goal was to grow the Internet through the dissemination of
> > addresses.
> >> > Conservation was not the principle, it was the means to prevent the
> >> > emptying of the free pool by bad actors.
> >>
> >> Not true. As I have pointed out in several fora several times before,
> >> conservation of the number space is NOT the same as conservation of a
> >> free pool of addresses. The principle here is conservation of the
> >> number space
> > -
> >> the whole thing, not one arbitrary slice of it.
> >>
> >
> > Conservation is a tool to implement fairness under the stewardship
> principle. It is not in itself a principle, and it is antithetical to the
> overall mission of "distribution".
> >
> >
> >> The definition of conservation from the science dictionary may be
> >> helpful
> > in
> >> illustrating what is meant by conservation of Internet
> >> numbers: Conservation is generally held to include the management of
> >> human use of natural resources for current public benefit and
> >> sustainable social and economic utilization. In this case the resource
> >> is the unique Internet number spaces (not just free pools).
> >
> > In common use, conservation is the act of withholding a resource for
> consumption at a future date. Rather than debate which definition to use,
> why not drop the term altogether? It adds no value, and distracts from the
> overall goal of establishing a replacement for 2050.
> >
> >>
> >> > These recent incarnations of this proposal continue to try to
> >> > shoehorn conservation as a principle, even to the point of including
> >> > conservation inside registration.
> >> > I don't think it is either a principal or a goal, for that matter,
> >> > just a protective mechanism for free pool addresses.
> >> > With the exhaustion of the free pool, conservation has no place in
> >> > the
> >> NRPM.
> >> > Until that time, we don't need to clutter the NRPM with some hoary
> >> > language from another era.
> >>
> >> If I can be so trite as to quote myself:
> >>
> >> "Understanding that the useful life of IPv4 is far from over (raise
> >> your
> > hand if
> >> you have used IPv4 for a critical communication in the past 24 hours)
> > makes it
> >> quite easy to see that we still have a need to "maximise the lifetime
> >> of
> > the
> >> public IPv4 address space."
> >>
> >> In fact, the IANA and RIR free pools have essentially been a buffer
> > protecting
> >> us from those who would seek to abuse the public IPv4 address space.
> >> As long as there was a reserve of IPv4 addresses, perturbations caused
> >> by bad actors could be absorbed to a large extent by doling out "new"
> >> addresses into the system under the care of more responsible folks.
> >> Now that almost
> > all
> >> of the public IPv4 address space has moved from RIR pools into the
> "wild,"
> >> there is arguably a much greater need to practice conservation. The
> >> loss
> > of
> >> the RIR free pool buffer does not mark the end of "the lifetime of the
> > public
> >> IPv4 address space" as Tore suggests but rather marks our entry into a
> >> new phase of that lifetime where stockpiling and hoarding have become
> >> even more dangerous."[1]
> >
> > I agree with Chris that there is no real distinction between the free
> pool and the overall space. Stewardship applies to all. That said,
> 'conservation'
> > itself is not a useful term when applied to the whole. In particular,
> when applied to the IPv4 space the argument that we are protecting for
> 'future use' is absurd. Wasting time over how to hoard the last bits is not
> moving the Internet forward. As I have pointed out before, ARIN needs to
> return 1 /8's worth of IPv4 to IANA as it was acquired under the pretense
> of use within 2 years, and as that has not happened, it needs to go back
> now so that others may use it. ... Once we get to the point of ARIN without
> a free pool, the discussion about policies and principles will align closer
> to reality.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> >
> >>
> >> > I am still against the proposal.
> >>
> >> As is your right.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> ~Chris
> >>
> >> [1] - http://www.circleid.com/posts/20130523_removing_need_at_ripe/
> >>
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Mike Burns
> >>
> >> > _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >> --
> >> @ChrisGrundemann
> >> http://chrisgrundemann.com
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> PPML
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>
>
> --
> @ChrisGrundemann
> http://chrisgrundemann.com
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