[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles - revised

cb.list6 cb.list6 at gmail.com
Thu Jul 11 12:26:02 EDT 2013


On Jul 11, 2013 8:55 AM, "Chris Grundemann" <cgrundemann at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Mike Burns <mike at nationwideinc.com>
wrote:
> > I see conservation not as a principle, I mean really the guiding
principle
> > should have been distribution of addresses, not conservation of them.
> > The goal was to grow the Internet through the dissemination of
addresses.
> > Conservation was not the principle, it was the means to prevent the
emptying
> > of the free pool by bad actors.
>
> Not true. As I have pointed out in several fora several times before,
> conservation of the number space is NOT the same as conservation of a
> free pool of addresses. The principle here is conservation of the
> number space - the whole thing, not one arbitrary slice of it.
>
> The definition of conservation from the science dictionary may be
> helpful in illustrating what is meant by conservation of Internet
> numbers: Conservation is generally held to include the management of
> human use of natural resources for current public benefit and
> sustainable social and economic utilization. In this case the resource
> is the unique Internet number spaces (not just free pools).
>
> > These recent incarnations of this proposal continue to try to shoehorn
> > conservation as a principle, even to the point of including conservation
> > inside registration.
> > I don’t think it is either a principal or a goal, for that matter, just
a
> > protective mechanism for free pool addresses.
> > With the exhaustion of the free pool, conservation has no place in the
NRPM.
> > Until that time, we don’t need to clutter the NRPM with some hoary
language
> > from another era.
>
> If I can be so trite as to quote myself:
>
> "Understanding that the useful life of IPv4 is far from over (raise
> your hand if you have used IPv4 for a critical communication in the
> past 24 hours) makes it quite easy to see that we still have a need to
> "maximise the lifetime of the public IPv4 address space."
>
> In fact, the IANA and RIR free pools have essentially been a buffer
> protecting us from those who would seek to abuse the public IPv4
> address space. As long as there was a reserve of IPv4 addresses,
> perturbations caused by bad actors could be absorbed to a large extent
> by doling out "new" addresses into the system under the care of more
> responsible folks. Now that almost all of the public IPv4 address
> space has moved from RIR pools into the "wild," there is arguably a
> much greater need to practice conservation. The loss of the RIR free
> pool buffer does not mark the end of "the lifetime of the public IPv4
> address space" as Tore suggests but rather marks our entry into a new
> phase of that lifetime where stockpiling and hoarding have become even
> more dangerous."[1]
>
> > I am still against the proposal.
>
> As is your right.
>

Who would benefit from hoarding?

Hoarding seems like economic "dumping", there are rules and policies around
it, but it has never really occured because the economics are wrong. The
market ensures dumping does not occur.

Or like the FUD about walmart driving local business out and then jacking
up prices after competition is gone, its just fud. People made a big noise
about it 20 years ago, not any more.

I think the market is only interestes in transactions. Ipv4 addresses are
like most cars, they depreciate rapidly so hoarding is not a real thing.

And, with google fiber at 77% ipv6 and vzw over 25%, i must say i would no
hoard ipv4.

But, my ask is, lets not assume hoarding or threats to ipv4 by bad actors
unless there is a real case that applies.

Afaik, arin brought transfers in to increase efficiency

CB
> Cheers,
> ~Chris
>
> [1] - http://www.circleid.com/posts/20130523_removing_need_at_ripe/
>
> > Regards,
> > Mike Burns
>
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> --
> @ChrisGrundemann
> http://chrisgrundemann.com
> _______________________________________________
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