[arin-ppml] WhoWas Service Now in ARIN Online Announcement

[admin at directcolocation.com]

I do agree that it is not a bad thing but I do not see how it is a fair
approach for a new service being applied to the whois at this date
forward, if you were in the business of LAW then it would appear that it
was a law that was being implemented and now would effect you on anything
you have done in the past vrs now that you know making sure that you
govern yourself accordingly.

I am not a lawyer but I think they call this ex post facto in the fact you
cannot punished for something you did in the past.

But in this case you may have well done something in the past and now have
to live with it for the rest of your IP life. I do not see how this could
be a fair way to handle the implementation of the information available in
this service, now that you know it exist and or you had some issues in the
past, even if you have cleaned up your act.

The problem I see is in this case is that as we all know the anti spammers
are not held accountable by any law or in some cases we do not know who
they are and or where they are, so if the  have this information at there
disposal.

Could it put ARIN a position of some kind of liability from a potential
law suite for providing this information based on private business models
and who one chooses to do business with based on the legal side of the
quote can spam act as all spammers will calm they follow.

The problem could be perceived is that the network operator is being
punished here by unregulated anti spammer groups and thus harming the
business income of that operator by the act of ARIN providing access to
this information to unregulated anti spammer groups, vrs the operators
business income being harmed because of the actions of ARIN providing the
unregulated groups access to the info.


Again I am not a lawyer, but this should be considered, because anti
spammers, like spammers hide themselves. With out the ability to regulate
the anti spammers and hold them accountable for there actions of the use
or mis use of this service, while there is some legislation in the can
spam act that has holds the spammers to some accountability.

I would venture to say in our law suite happy world that some sharp lawyer
might just challenge the use of this service harming an operators business
income and go after the provider of information that caused the harm in
this case ARIN.

I guess we should consider if any of the other RIR's are doing the same
service because that would negate this concern.

I am sure they would try to site that as a difference in single out of
ARIN if it came down to that extreme situation.


Also do you know if the service will be used on IPV6 whois so as this goes
forward we will be able to have that information there also or is just on
the IPV4 whois

Donald Mahoney
Network Engineer
Direct Colocation

On 3/28/12 3:42 PM, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com> wrote:

It goes back in time and should include all historical whois information
available.

The only drawback is it prevents someone from denying their history.
Personally, I don't see that as a bad thing.

Owen


Sent from my iPad

On Mar 28, 2012, at 1:04 PM, admin at directcolocation.com wrote:

I guess it comes down to the fact of how they the ARIN intends to create
the starting point on this service since it is a new service, does it go
back in the historical past from the inception of the blocks that are
assigned to such or does it go forward from this point of the service
being created.
The key for his concern would be if they had problems in the past with the
anti spammers and continued having the same kind of problem customers,
then I could see the use of this service potential effecting the long term
reputation, since the problem would be that some of the anti spammer
groups that might use the service could refuse to work with this kind of
operator so they could at least clean up there act.
Does anyone know if ARIN intends to start the service from this point
forward and or go back into current historical data from the issuance of
the blocks in the whois.
If they start it from this point on then I would look at it as an
opportunity to get my house in order if you know that this is the kind of
customers you have been targeting.
Donald Mahoney
Network Engineer
Direct Colocation
On 3/28/12 2:31 PM, "Kevin Kargel" <kkargel at polartel.com> wrote:
It appears that after years of being harangued by 'anti-spam' cultists for
access to historic WHOIS data in order to burnish their credentials as
Official Spam Detectives and support their efforts to criminalize
marketing and drag email back to the DARPA era, ARIN has finally thrown in
the towel. I am frankly disappointed.
Has this topic every been discussed? This needs not to be part of the
Disciples of ARIN. I am optimistic this can be reversed pending
discussion.
Nicky Smith
CAROLINANET.COM
336.346.6000 x105
I, for one, do not understand what you perceive the evil of a WhoWas service
to be? Aside from the worst case of wasting admin time and budget I do not
see a real down side to it's existence. Please elucidate.
I do remember the topic being discussed on more than one occasion.
Kevin
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