[arin-ppml] Residential Customers

[Cameron Byrne]

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Chris Grundemann
<cgrundemann at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 11:17 AM, Cameron Byrne <cb.list6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Chris Grundemann
>> <cgrundemann at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 11:06 AM, Cameron Byrne <cb.list6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 9:16 AM, Scott Leibrand <scottleibrand at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I would say yes, a natural person qualifies as a residential customer. If ARIN interprets the policy differently, we can of course make the policy more explicit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, ARIN has informed me that since the service is not to PHYSICAL
>>>> residence, it does not apply.
>>>>
>>>> This seemed strange to me, not sure why IP policy would apply to OSI
>>>> Layer 1 media type.  Is an official wording change required or just
>>>> guidance to the ARIN staff?
>>>
>>> In what context did they say this? What specifically are we talking
>>> about (in what way do you need "residential customer" to apply)?
>>>
>>
>> Very specifically, i was told that i must show specifically 80% active
>> usage of all assigned addresses.
>>
>> I would like to move the bar from 80% demonstrated active use to 50%
>> use as defined here in NRPM 4.2.3.7.3.1.
>>
>> The technical issues that, i assume, prompted policy in  NRPM
>> 4.2.3.7.3.1.  applies the same way to mobile networks as it does to
>> landline, thus the policy should apply the same when requesting
>> resources and justifying use.
>
> The only issue I see is that many (all that I have personal knowledge
> of) mobile providers NAT most (if not all) of their customer traffic
> (ala CGN, before it had a cool name) and often mix private addresses
> in with the public to expand the use of address pools when needed
> (since its all NATed anyway, it doesn't matter). In that environment,
> a 50% utilization rate almost becomes a license to steal. I think we
> need to assure that free pool public addresses go where they are most
> needed and don't end up in NAT pools where globally unique addresses
> are not required. I think the community would need some kind of
> assurance around that for this to work... But I could be way off base,
> I'm sure folks will tell me if I am.
>
> ~Chris
>

That sounds like new policy, a specific policy for CGN infrastructure.

My question was around existing policy and the definition of residential.

I am sure you also know some large DSL providers are now using private
space for their customers and deploying CGN.

FYI, my situation / request is for end-user IP addresses assigned to
end users dynamically  (similar to status quo with other residential
services such as Cable and DSL).  This is not space assigned to CGN or
infrastructure.

CB



>>
>> CB
>>
>>
>>> ~Chris
>>>
>>>> CB
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 7:55 AM, Cameron Byrne <cb.list6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear PPML,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are mobile network subscribers considered residential customers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#two13
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2.13. Residential Customer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> End-users who are individual persons and not organizations and who
>>>>>> receive service at a place of residence for personal use only are
>>>>>> considered residential customers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would say yes.  There is no meaningful distinction from a IP
>>>>>> resource utilization perspective,  a cable CMTS is nearly equivalent
>>>>>> to a mobile GGSN / PDSN, no?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mobile subscribers are certainly not "ISPs", they do no
>>>>>> sub-delegate...  or even "Enterprise Networks" ... mobile subscribers
>>>>>> are 1 IP per subscription.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How should ARIN staff be interpreting this term "Residential Customer"
>>>>>> with regards to mobile network?  Are they or are they not "residential
>>>>>> customers"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cameron
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> @ChrisGrundemann
>>> http://chrisgrundemann.com
>
>
>
> --
> @ChrisGrundemann
> http://chrisgrundemann.com