[arin-ppml] ARIN-prop-178 Regional Use of Resources

Tony Hain alh-ietf at tndh.net
Mon Jul 16 14:35:19 EDT 2012

David Farmer wrote:

> >  ...
> > The only thing the RIRs need to be watching for is duplicate requests
> > to fulfill the same deployment. If someone is a member of all 5 RIRs,
> > does not acquire excess resource by using the same need in more than
> > one request, and conforms to the policy where the request is made, it
> > is not anyone's business how that gets deployed.
> I'm glad you agree we need to prevent duplicate and/or overlapping
> requests. So, your not asking for the "most liberal regional hierarchy"
> that was described in the Rationale, or at least you seem agree it needs
> constraints on it at least.
> However, there are criteria that I'm told the global Internet community
> wants as well;
> 1. Regional independence and control of policy
> 2. Only justify the use of resources to the RIR you received them from
> that RIRs policies
> In addition to;
> 3. Prevent duplicate and/or overlapping requests to multiple RIRs, in
> words stewardship (that you identified)
> Tony, in your opinion are these all requirements?

I believe those are the requirements, and are completely compatible with
what I said.

> So when you combined those, one of the easiest solutions to identify,
> understand, and explain to others, is to regionalize.
> If you only receive resources from an RIR for use in that region you meet
> of those requirements, this is essentially X.1.  There are other solutions
> well; Getting resource only from the region you are HQed in works too,
this is
> essentially X.2. (Actually, ARIN-Prop-178 is a hybrid approach of the two,
> fuzzy boundaries and some additional flexibility created with Incidental

X.3 fundamentally invalidates any 'need' for either X.1 or X.2. 

> Without some kind of regional hierarchy as a tool to control the overlap,
> wouldn't you need to justify your total global use of resources from all
> to each RIR every time you want additional resources?  

No, you justify global use of resources from all RIRs to the one you are
making the current request from.

> And if you do that by
> which polices does an RIR evaluate that global use its own, or the
policies of
> the RIR that the resources were received?  

The RIR evaluates based on its own policies.

> And, How do you resolve the conflicts?

The requestor has to meet the policies of the RIR being asked. How they
justified resources in the past is not an issue. The only thing being
evaluated is 'are the current resources being deployed according to the
policy requirements of the RIR being asked for new resources?'

> Personally, I'm willing to consider something like that and tried for
> months to come up with language that had any hope to make that work, but
> couldn't.  it always fail at least one of the three
> requirements above.  Honestly, I never really got close either.   Do you
> have ideas?  Are any those requirements invalid?
> I'm not ignoring the rest of what you said, but I have to think about it
> But what I think your saying is there is another requirement;
> 4. No restriction on location of use
> And I'm not seeing a solution set for those four requirements.  I believe
> can have #1 & #2, with #3 or we can have #1 & #2, with #4, but I don't see
> how to have #1 & #2 with both #3 & #4.  Honestly, I think splitting IANA
> into the RIRs and giving them local policy control necessarily creates a
> requirement for restriction on location of use.

No, location is a non-issue. Any requestor has resources in deployment on a
global basis. Any request they make for additional resources has to meet the
policies of the RIR they are requesting from. 

The regionalization has more to do with aligning administrative procedures
with social & international norms than it does with where the resources are


> Help me think of another way please.
> Thanks
> --
> ===============================================
> David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu
> Networking & Telecommunication Services
> Office of Information Technology
> University of Minnesota
> 2218 University Ave SE	    Phone: 612-626-0815
> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
> ===============================================

More information about the ARIN-PPML mailing list