[arin-ppml] ARIN-prop-178 Regional Use of Resources
farmer at umn.edu
Sat Jul 14 20:02:31 EDT 2012
On 7/14/12 17:32 CDT, Tony Hain wrote:
> Owen DeLong wrote:
>> However, what we want to avoid primarily with this policy is RIR policy
>> shopping and/or efforts by members of the other RIRs to essentially
>> circumvent their policies by effectively transferring space into those
>> outside of the control of those RIRs.
> RIR shopping A) is not a real problem because the result is not as
> disastrous as people speculate; B) is not going to be stopped by
> unenforceable policies; C) is an absurd necessity because the RIR
> memberships have forgotten that they are tasked as 'local facilitators' to
> -- distribute the resources -- on behalf of IANA. The RIRs are not
> resource tsar's, they are stewards. The entire concept of 'outside the
> control' has no place in this conversation.
> The only thing the RIRs need to be watching for is duplicate requests to
> fulfill the same deployment. If someone is a member of all 5 RIRs, does not
> acquire excess resource by using the same need in more than one request, and
> conforms to the policy where the request is made, it is not anyone's
> business how that gets deployed.
I'm glad you agree we need to prevent duplicate and/or overlapping
requests. So, your not asking for the "most liberal regional hierarchy"
that was described in the Rationale, or at least you seem agree it needs
some constraints on it at least.
However, there are criteria that I'm told the global Internet community
wants as well;
1. Regional independence and control of policy
2. Only justify the use of resources to the RIR you received them from
using that RIRs policies
In addition to;
3. Prevent duplicate and/or overlapping requests to multiple RIRs, in
other words stewardship (that you identified)
Tony, in your opinion are these all requirements?
So when you combined those, one of the easiest solutions to identify,
understand, and explain to others, is to regionalize.
If you only receive resources from an RIR for use in that region you
meet all of those requirements, this is essentially X.1. There are
other solutions as well; Getting resource only from the region you are
HQed in works too, this is essentially X.2. (Actually, ARIN-Prop-178 is
a hybrid approach of the two, with fuzzy boundaries and some additional
flexibility created with Incidental Use)
Without some kind of regional hierarchy as a tool to control the
overlap, wouldn't you need to justify your total global use of resources
from all RIRs to each RIR every time you want additional resources? And
if you do that by which polices does an RIR evaluate that global use its
own, or the policies of the RIR that the resources were received? And,
How do you resolve the conflicts?
Personally, I'm willing to consider something like that and tried for
several months to come up with language that had any hope to make that
work, but couldn't. it always fail at least one of the three
requirements above. Honestly, I never really got close either. Do you
have ideas? Are any those requirements invalid?
I'm not ignoring the rest of what you said, but I have to think about it
But what I think your saying is there is another requirement;
4. No restriction on location of use
And I'm not seeing a solution set for those four requirements. I
believe we can have #1 & #2, with #3 or we can have #1 & #2, with #4,
but I don't see how to have #1 & #2 with both #3 & #4. Honestly, I
think splitting IANA up into the RIRs and giving them local policy
control necessarily creates a requirement for restriction on location of
Help me think of another way please.
David Farmer Email:farmer at umn.edu
Networking & Telecommunication Services
Office of Information Technology
University of Minnesota
2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952
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