[arin-ppml] ARIN-prop-178 Regional Use of Resources

Sat Jul 14 16:03:07 EDT 2012

Owen, you know more about these processes than I probably ever will - as is obvious from your various post to this community.  

However, what's really gonna happen in real life is this kind of a scenario:

Someone like China Telecom (don't remember their real name) who is controlled by the Chinese Government - is going to decide they want a lot more IPv4 addresses.  In fact they want their own /8.  Since there aren’t any unassigned /8's for them to get from APNIC (and IANA doesn't have any more to give) they start looking at who is assigned the /8's worldwide.  They scan the list of /8 assignee's and come across a curious one that is assigned to Amateur Radio Digital Communications which is the 44.0.0.0 Class A block.  If my memory serves me right they are associated with the University of San Diego.  I picked this block at random because my Grandfather was an early adopter Ham Radio operator (Hams) in the 1930's.  Unfortunately he is a Silent Key now, but I digress.

Since China Telecom is controlled by the Chinese government and essentially has very very deep pockets they make a huge offer to the Hams to buy their whole /8 block.  They haggle a bit and China Telecom agrees to pay an unbelievable amount of money to the Hams for the whole /8.  They sign an agreement with a confidentiality clause in it, and the funds are wired into their bank account immediately, all without ARINs knowledge.  While the Hams are sleeping that night dreaming about all of the state of the art radio equipment they are gonna buy with the exorbitant amount of money they just received in their bank account,  China Telecom brass visits the CEO of APNIC.  They ask the CEO to agree to service their new 44.0.0.0 block and at first he refuses because ARIN has authority over that block and APNIC doesn't.  China Telecom then offers APNIC an exorbitant amount of money and of course APNIC agrees to it.  The next day this whole transaction is announced to the world and everyone is up in arms over it.  ARIN is mad - the other RIR's are mad (although maybe not as much) - IANA is mad - and there is this huge buzz in all the papers and on the Internet about it worldwide.  

Then while ARIN is publicly trying to refuse to let control of this block go to APNIC, the Chinese President calls up the American President and tells him that China Telecom really needs this /8 block.  Further he tells the American President that if he doesn't back his request to move control of the /8 to APNIC  - then China will no longer buy America's debt.  By the end of the phone call the American President agrees to allow the /8 block to be moved to APNIC, and then his staff calls the powers that be to make this happen - and by nightfall the deal is done.  Voila, in a matter of hours ARIN has lost control of a whole /8 and the world's biggest sale of an IPv4 block all happened without any of ARIN's involvement or even their knowledge.  China Telecom didn't have to prove to ARIN they needed the block and none of ARIN's policies were followed.  ARIN just has to accept it.  ARIN didn't even get an administrative fee for this move.

This is the way things are done in the real world and in the real marketplace.  So Owen, you asked how my comment below applies.  This scenario that I have laid out is of course the Armageddon of possibilities, but things like this, and things on a smaller scale can and WILL happen in the future.  It is inevitable!  So again I say, ARIN can either try and block or stall IPv4 from being transferred between 3rd parties, or ARIN can have the vision and realize the inevitability of what the near future is going to be like - and prepare its policies to accommodate it - and cheerfully administrate it for a reasonable fee.  

I'll leave it to you and other folks in the community and the folks at ARIN - who know much more about the actual processes than I do, to come up with real world policies to accommodate the inevitable transfer by 3rd parties of IPv4 blocks.  When that happens I will applaud those policies in this community.  I suspect a lot of other will as well.  :-)  

Steven L Ryerse
President
100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA  30338
770.656.1460 - Cell
770.399.9099 - Office
770.392-0076 - Fax

℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc.
                     Conquering Complex Networks℠

-----Original Message-----
From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen at delong.com] 
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 2:06 PM
To: Steven Ryerse
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-prop-178 Regional Use of Resources

That's already allowed under NRPM 8.3, so I'm not sure what you are talking about or how it relates to proposal 178.

Can you clarify?

Owen

On Jul 14, 2012, at 10:54 AM, Steven Ryerse wrote:

> I strongly agree!  Since the day will come quite soon that all of ARIN's IPv4 addresses will be assigned and ARIN will have no more left,  it is just a matter of when ARIN allows 3rd parties to transfer IPv4 resources to another party - AND NOT IF ARIN WILL ALLOW IT.  Instead of fighting it, ARIN should go ahead and put the necessary reasonable policies in place now for that, and join the reality of the marketplace.  ARIN can wait and do it when it runs out of addresses or it can do it now.   It is pragmatic to do it now and it allows ARIN a say in how this process will work.  If ARIN continues to fight it then a judge somewhere will make the decision for ARIN and then ARIN will have to live with whatever that judge decides - not a good strategy.  This will bolster ARIN's ability to fulfill its mission!!
> 
> Steven L Ryerse
> President
> 100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA  30338
> 770.656.1460 - Cell
> 770.399.9099 - Office
> 770.392-0076 - Fax
> 
> ℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc.
>                     Conquering Complex Networks℠
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] 
> On Behalf Of Tony Hain
> Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 1:07 PM
> To: 'Owen DeLong'; 'Jimmy Hess'
> Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-prop-178 Regional Use of Resources
> 
> Owen DeLong wrote:
>> ...
>> 
>> Do you think that an ISP from out of region should be allowed to set 
>> up a small shell company in the US and then obtain unlimited 
>> resources from
> ARIN
>> to use in their operations elsewhere in the world?
>>> ...
> 
> Just a reminder that the address space is a global resource. ARIN is a regional administrator to - facilitate - distribution, just like the other 4. It was not set up to act as a body that hoards everything it can get its hands on. 
> 
> Rewind the clock to ~'96 when IANA handled all distribution, and there was no 'this is mine' mentality. Seriously, 2 year olds in the sandbox do a better job of resource sharing than what we are seeing in the wind-down of the IPv4 pool. 
> 
> I still believe that the best course of action would be for the RIR holding the largest pool to take on the role of IANA and do a monthly/quarterly distribution through any RIR without the resources to meet its customer's needs. This avoids the problem of shell companies in all regions, and the associated short-term bubble staffing demands to review requests; as well as depleting the remaining free pool in an expeditious manner, which avoids absurd distortions in whatever market emerges. 
> 
> IPv4 is a historical artifact, get over it and move on. Arguing over policies intended to hoard the last remaining scraps on the bone is more the domain of the Condor or Jackal than civilized facilitators. 
> 
> Tony
> 
> 
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