[arin-ppml] Prop-151: Limiting needs requirements for IPv4 transfers

[Owen DeLong]

It is relatively easy to acquire address space in the ARIN region as well.

I don't believe for one moment that APNIC's policies or their application of
those policies is significantly less strict than ARIN"s. If it were, APNIC would
have consumed a much greater quantity of IPv4 address space.

It may be a widely held belief. That does not make it correct.

Owen

On Jan 17, 2012, at 3:06 PM, Martin Hannigan wrote:

> Asking people for "evidence" of this is a red herring.
> 
> It is a widely held belief that I have heard from even reliable
> sources including RIR staff members that it is/was/has been relatively
> easy to acquire address space in the APNIC region, for example. That
> is not indicative of right or wrong.  I do take it as fact considering
> the sources and their numbers.
> 
> Best,
> 
> -M<
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 5:37 PM, David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> On 1/17/12 10:25 CST, William Herrin wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Alexander, Daniel
>>> <Daniel_Alexander at cable.comcast.com>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> My impression is that the word "compatible" provides the flexibility to
>>>> the RIR without imposing the burden of having to review every request. If
>>>> ARIN staff observes transfer behavior in a region that is questionable,
>>>> it
>>>> could raise the issue to the AC and the BoT. I would presume that
>>>> inter-RIR transfers could then be put on hold while an understanding of
>>>> the situation is achieved.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dan,
>>> 
>>> You're missing the point. It isn't a question of other RIRs behaving
>>> badly, it's about what happens when each RIR behaves normally and
>>> reasonably. Under 2011-1, the other RIR will apply their ordinary
>>> policies to the recipient. If not behaving badly, they'll apply the
>>> same policies they apply to any other recipient.
>>> 
>>> In general, those policies are less strict than ARINs. Not because of
>>> any malfeasance but because that's how they chose to set their own
>>> local policies. This means that an ARIN recipient will have a harder
>>> time qualifying his network to ARIN for receipt of a particular
>>> transfer of ARIN-region addresses than an out-region recipient to his
>>> RIR for the same transfer.
>>> 
>>> That's unfair. Were it an ARIN-region registrant trying to transfer
>>> addresses from another region that unfairness wouldn't be so
>>> objectionable. But when it's an ARIN-region registrant trying to
>>> capture ARIN-region addresses, the unfairness is manifest.
>> 
>> 
>> Bill,
>> 
>> Can you please provide specific policies of the other RIRs you feel are less
>> strict.  When I look at the policies I see them as more or less equivalent,
>> on some issues we are more strict and on others we are less, but we seem to
>> be in the same ballpark on most everything.  So, yes, the polices are not
>> identical.  But, on balance, I don't believe there is that significant of a
>> difference, at least not enough difference to justify calling it unfair.
>> 
>> There seems to be a general impression that the other RIR's policies are
>> more lax than ARIN's, but I don't believe that is born out in reality.
>> 
>> The current NRO comparative overview is located at;
>> 
>> http://www.nro.net/rir-comparative-policy-overview/rir-comparative-policy-overview-2011-03
>> 
>> Previous version can be found at;
>> 
>> http://www.nro.net/policies/rir-comparative-policy-overview
>> 
>> I'm willing to be convinced that there are differences that matter. However,
>> I'm unwilling just take this as "everybody knows" the other RIRs are less
>> strict, I need a much stronger argument.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> --
>> ===============================================
>> David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu
>> Networking & Telecommunication Services
>> Office of Information Technology
>> University of Minnesota
>> 2218 University Ave SE      Phone: 612-626-0815
>> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
>> ===============================================
>> 
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