[arin-ppml] Serious question for the list.

Thu May 5 16:18:41 EDT 2011

Mike,

I agree and wholeheartedly support your privilege if not responsibility to educate the public on matters you consider important, whether that be IP/ARIN or AIDS or animal rights or whatever is important to you.  

Organizing a protest flood to swamp the list would be tantamount to a verbal DoS and while probably legal would be ethically wrong and counterproductive.

Just my humble opinion.

Kevin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On
> Behalf Of Mike Burns
> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 1:51 PM
> To: Ted Mittelstaedt
> Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Serious question for the list.
> 
> Hi Ted,
> 
> Okay, I understand what you mean, and where the line should be drawn in
> terms of solicitation for participation.
> I shouldn't go out and make mass mailings or robotic postings or go to
> specific forums and try to stir up the population to jump on and vote for
> my
> proposal.
> But if I had a blog or something, I could write about the issue and ask
> the
> readers to participate in the list generally, but not just to jump on one
> proposal that might suit them ideologically or emotionally.
> 
> I would say that is pretty close to my own opinion.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm at ipinc.net>
> To: "Mike Burns" <mike at nationwideinc.com>
> Cc: <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 2:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Serious question for the list.
> 
> 
> > On 5/5/2011 11:30 AM, Mike Burns wrote:
> >> Hi Ted,
> >>
> >> Thanks for the input.
> >> I understand what you are saying about the dangers of the unwashed.
> >> What about a blog?
> >> Do you think it would be okay to advocate a position in blog and
> solicit
> >> participation on the list?
> >>
> >
> > It's always OK to solicit participation in the list.  But the key word
> > here is "participation"
> >
> > Writing an article to tell people to subscribe just over some point
> issue
> > and flood the mailing list isn't participation.  If they are going
> > to participate, then they better be here for the long run.  There's a
> > lot of other stuff that we deal with.
> >
> > Ted
> >
> >> Regards,
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm at ipinc.net>
> >> To: <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> >> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 2:23 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Serious question for the list.
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 5/5/2011 11:02 AM, Mike Burns wrote:
> >>>> It seems to me that the decision about needs analysis for transfers
> may
> >>>> have some large non-technical components, like one's view of the role
> >>>> of
> >>>> markets in allocating scarce resources.
> >>>> Yes, there are issues of deaggregation, which are too technical for
> the
> >>>> layman.
> >>>> Yes, there is a danger of overburdening the policy development
> system,
> >>>> not something anyone would want.
> >>>> But do we want a technical elite making decisions that are not really
> >>>> technical, like the value of unrestricted versus restricted markets?
> >>>
> >>> No, we do not.
> >>>
> >>>> Are we inside an ivory tower?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> No, but there is a proper way to bring the general public into the
> >>> decision making in a large volume.
> >>>
> >>> There isn't (in my opinion) a problem with posting in a rag like
> >>> the Libertarian Times or some such, that a mailing list like ppml
> >>> EXISTS. The very few members of the general public who waste their
> >>> time with that stuff and who are at all competent and really care
> >>> about the issue will investigate, make themselves fully aware of
> >>> all of the arguments on all sides of the issue, as well as look
> >>> up the rules for the ppml list (which I will remind everyone,
> >>> ARIN owns and makes the rules on) then join and contribute in
> >>> a positive way.
> >>>
> >>> But the majority of the members of the general public who waste
> >>> their time with that stuff and who are NOT competent will find the
> >>> bar of actually having to look up the instructions for posting
> >>> and rules for joining too difficult to master, and will stay away.
> >>>
> >>> Unless, that is, the poster of the article in the Libertarian Times
> >>> gives an explicit step-by-step set of instructions for how to
> >>> go about subscribing, that a blind monkey could follow.
> >>>
> >>> If you really and truly want to bring people into the decision
> >>> making process who are too ignorant to google up "ppml mailing list"
> >>> then the proper way is via publishing a survey in the ragazine.
> >>>
> >>> The author of the article in the Libertarian Times can create a
> >>> dumbed-down survey on someplace like survey.com or whatever, that
> >>> the ignoramuses can comprehend.
> >>>
> >>> Then we can get the feedback from the unwashed masses without
> >>> being drowned in an onslaught of 5000 fools wanting to know what
> >>> an IP address is and why we can't make more of them.
> >>>
> >>> But, to save you the time I can predict what the general public
> >>> will say in advance - boiled down:
> >>>
> >>> "I want what I have to stay the same and I don't give a damn
> >>> if it staying the same prevents 3/4 of the people in the world
> >>> who aren't on the Internet now, from ever getting on it. I
> >>> got mine, Jack, and screw the rest of them."
> >>>
> >>> Ted
> >>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> Mike
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Farmer" <farmer at umn.edu>
> >>>> To: "Martin Hannigan" <hannigan at gmail.com>
> >>>> Cc: "Mike Burns" <mike at nationwideinc.com>; <arin-ppml at arin.net>;
> "David
> >>>> Farmer" <farmer at umn.edu>
> >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 1:45 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Serious question for the list.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 5/5/11 12:25 CDT, Martin Hannigan wrote:
> >>>>>> On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 1:17 PM, David Farmer<farmer at umn.edu> wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 5/5/11 11:49 CDT, Mike Burns wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>>> I have had an idea.
> >>>>>>>> Since it has been determined that everybody in the ARIN community
> >>>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>>> an email address may participate in policy development, how does
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> list feel about soliciting the input from a broader group of
> >>>>>>>> participants?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> While not an absolute requirement, I believe there is an
> >>>>>>> understanding that
> >>>>>>> some minimal level of technical expertise and interest in the
> >>>>>>> details of
> >>>>>>> the subject matter are necessary in order to provide useful or
> >>>>>>> meaningful
> >>>>>>> contribution to the process.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So we would exclude members of the general public (users) then?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Where did I say exclude? "not an absolute requirement", an "interest
> >>>>> in the details" are needed for a "meaningful contribution". None of
> >>>>> that means exclude in my book, it simply means that participation
> >>>>> takes effort and if you want people to take you seriously you need
> to
> >>>>> make a effort. That is true in many parts of civil society.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> ===============================================
> >>>>> David Farmer Email:farmer at umn.edu
> >>>>> Networking & Telecommunication Services
> >>>>> Office of Information Technology
> >>>>> University of Minnesota 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815
> >>>>> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952
> >>>>> ===============================================
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> PPML
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> >>>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> PPML
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> >>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
> >>
> >
> 
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