[arin-ppml] Serious question for the list.

Thu May 5 15:34:15 EDT 2011

On May 5, 2011, at 11:52 AM, "Mike Burns" <mike at nationwideinc.com> wrote:

> Hi Ted,
>
> Okay, I understand what you mean, and where the line should be drawn in terms of solicitation for participation.
> I shouldn't go out and make mass mailings or robotic postings or go to specific forums and try to stir up the population to jump on and vote for my proposal.
> But if I had a blog or something, I could write about the issue and ask the readers to participate in the list generally, but not just to jump on one proposal that might suit them ideologically or emotionally.
>
> I would say that is pretty close to my own opinion.

I would agree with that summary, and would encourage anyone with the
time and willingness to invest in such a project to do exactly that.
As John just mentioned, it would also be good to point new
participants to resources that would help them meaningfully
participate. But I think the key is that anyone who wishes to
participate, by posting well-reasoned arguments and opinions
(technical or not) is welcome to do so.  As others have mentioned,
quality of such arguments is what matters, not quantity, but there are
a number of perspectives we are undoubtedly missing, so it would be
good to have meaningful participation from such folks.

Thanks for your efforts to help increase participation levels, and
your commitment to doing so in such a way as to improve the signal to
noise ratio here.  :-)

-Scott

>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm at ipinc.net>
> To: "Mike Burns" <mike at nationwideinc.com>
> Cc: <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 2:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Serious question for the list.
>
>
>> On 5/5/2011 11:30 AM, Mike Burns wrote:
>>> Hi Ted,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the input.
>>> I understand what you are saying about the dangers of the unwashed.
>>> What about a blog?
>>> Do you think it would be okay to advocate a position in blog and solicit
>>> participation on the list?
>>>
>>
>> It's always OK to solicit participation in the list.  But the key word
>> here is "participation"
>>
>> Writing an article to tell people to subscribe just over some point issue and flood the mailing list isn't participation.  If they are going
>> to participate, then they better be here for the long run.  There's a
>> lot of other stuff that we deal with.
>>
>> Ted
>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm at ipinc.net>
>>> To: <arin-ppml at arin.net>
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 2:23 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Serious question for the list.
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 5/5/2011 11:02 AM, Mike Burns wrote:
>>>>> It seems to me that the decision about needs analysis for transfers may
>>>>> have some large non-technical components, like one's view of the role of
>>>>> markets in allocating scarce resources.
>>>>> Yes, there are issues of deaggregation, which are too technical for the
>>>>> layman.
>>>>> Yes, there is a danger of overburdening the policy development system,
>>>>> not something anyone would want.
>>>>> But do we want a technical elite making decisions that are not really
>>>>> technical, like the value of unrestricted versus restricted markets?
>>>>
>>>> No, we do not.
>>>>
>>>>> Are we inside an ivory tower?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No, but there is a proper way to bring the general public into the
>>>> decision making in a large volume.
>>>>
>>>> There isn't (in my opinion) a problem with posting in a rag like
>>>> the Libertarian Times or some such, that a mailing list like ppml
>>>> EXISTS. The very few members of the general public who waste their
>>>> time with that stuff and who are at all competent and really care
>>>> about the issue will investigate, make themselves fully aware of
>>>> all of the arguments on all sides of the issue, as well as look
>>>> up the rules for the ppml list (which I will remind everyone,
>>>> ARIN owns and makes the rules on) then join and contribute in
>>>> a positive way.
>>>>
>>>> But the majority of the members of the general public who waste
>>>> their time with that stuff and who are NOT competent will find the
>>>> bar of actually having to look up the instructions for posting
>>>> and rules for joining too difficult to master, and will stay away.
>>>>
>>>> Unless, that is, the poster of the article in the Libertarian Times
>>>> gives an explicit step-by-step set of instructions for how to
>>>> go about subscribing, that a blind monkey could follow.
>>>>
>>>> If you really and truly want to bring people into the decision
>>>> making process who are too ignorant to google up "ppml mailing list"
>>>> then the proper way is via publishing a survey in the ragazine.
>>>>
>>>> The author of the article in the Libertarian Times can create a
>>>> dumbed-down survey on someplace like survey.com or whatever, that
>>>> the ignoramuses can comprehend.
>>>>
>>>> Then we can get the feedback from the unwashed masses without
>>>> being drowned in an onslaught of 5000 fools wanting to know what
>>>> an IP address is and why we can't make more of them.
>>>>
>>>> But, to save you the time I can predict what the general public
>>>> will say in advance - boiled down:
>>>>
>>>> "I want what I have to stay the same and I don't give a damn
>>>> if it staying the same prevents 3/4 of the people in the world
>>>> who aren't on the Internet now, from ever getting on it. I
>>>> got mine, Jack, and screw the rest of them."
>>>>
>>>> Ted
>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Farmer" <farmer at umn.edu>
>>>>> To: "Martin Hannigan" <hannigan at gmail.com>
>>>>> Cc: "Mike Burns" <mike at nationwideinc.com>; <arin-ppml at arin.net>; "David
>>>>> Farmer" <farmer at umn.edu>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 1:45 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Serious question for the list.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/5/11 12:25 CDT, Martin Hannigan wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 1:17 PM, David Farmer<farmer at umn.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/5/11 11:49 CDT, Mike Burns wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>> I have had an idea.
>>>>>>>>> Since it has been determined that everybody in the ARIN community
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> an email address may participate in policy development, how does the
>>>>>>>>> list feel about soliciting the input from a broader group of
>>>>>>>>> participants?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> While not an absolute requirement, I believe there is an
>>>>>>>> understanding that
>>>>>>>> some minimal level of technical expertise and interest in the
>>>>>>>> details of
>>>>>>>> the subject matter are necessary in order to provide useful or
>>>>>>>> meaningful
>>>>>>>> contribution to the process.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So we would exclude members of the general public (users) then?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where did I say exclude? "not an absolute requirement", an "interest
>>>>>> in the details" are needed for a "meaningful contribution". None of
>>>>>> that means exclude in my book, it simply means that participation
>>>>>> takes effort and if you want people to take you seriously you need to
>>>>>> make a effort. That is true in many parts of civil society.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> ===============================================
>>>>>> David Farmer Email:farmer at umn.edu
>>>>>> Networking & Telecommunication Services
>>>>>> Office of Information Technology
>>>>>> University of Minnesota 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815
>>>>>> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952
>>>>>> ===============================================
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> PPML
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>>>
>
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