[arin-ppml] ARIN-prop-133: No Volunteer Services on Behalf of Unaffiliated Address Blocks

[John Santos]

On Wed, 16 Feb 2011, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

... one of the most illogical posts I have ever read on a technical
mailing list.


> On 2/15/2011 11:32 PM, George Bonser wrote:
> >>
> >> The Internet will be Dead ->  Kill the Internet ?
> >>
> >
> > I don't think the internet is going to die because of whois entries.  At
> > best it is just a distraction.  At worst, it is a sort of retroactive
> > changing of the rules that have been in place for a very long time.  If
> > it hasn't already destroyed the Internet over the past 20 years of the
> > general public being on it, it isn't going to break anything over the
> > next few years.  This almost seems to be like several ways of somehow
> > getting hold of legacy address space or making it easier to hijack it.
> > Forget it.  Those addresses were issued in a different time under
> > different rules and you can't just go changing the rules now just
> > because we have run out of them.
> 
> Yes you can.  There is plenty of legal precedent for doing just that
> in every legal system in the world.

Ever hear of ex post facto?  It's unconstutional in the US.

> 
> And in fact, we HAVE done this.  We have done it by setting up a
> system to make legacy IPv4 obsolete.
> 

We don't go around seizing buggy whips.  Making it obsolete does
not deprive holders of the right to use it as they see fit.

> What I find quite interesting is this concept that legacy holders have
> special IP addressing "rights"

Straw man.

There's no special right, just the right to use the addresses as
they always have, not subject to capricious revokation or random
reallocation or reassignment of their addresses by an organization
with whom they have no contract or business relationship.

> 
> If this is really true, then why aren't the legacy holders arguing that
> their "rights" are for IP ADDRESSING, not "IPv4 addressing"

Because we were assigned IPv4 addresses by the legitimate orginization
at the time, not IPv6 addresses or DECnet addresses, IPv4 addresses.

> 
> IPv4 and IPv6 addresses are....drumroll.... "IP addresses"

False equivalence.

No legacy holders were assigned IPv6 addresses.

> 
> If the legacy holders really and truly have special "ip addressing" 
> rights then by NOT giving them FREE IPv6 assignments we are VIOLATING
> those rights - and they have a legal claim to go challenge ARIN's
> decision to NOT extend FREE IPv6 registrations to them.

Straw man.  It is your false equivalence of IPv4 and IPv6 addresses
which leads to this claim.  No legacy holders are making it.  Second
straw man in the same paragraph.  No legacy holders are claiming any
right to additional addresses beyond what they already hold.

> 
> If you peruse the handwritten spiral notebook that the "original" IPv4
> addresses were assigned off of, you don't find mention of "IPv4".  You
> just find "IP addresses"

If you scan the sales logs of any home electronics store in 1955,
you won't find any mention of "black and white television set", just
"television set".  But all the IP addresses were 4 octets and unique
within that 32-bit address space and were assigned in conformance with
the relevant IPv4 RFCs.

> 
> If you look into the "deal" that was made when ARIN was created you
> find this as well.
> 
> The concept that "Legacy IP Addresses" were specifically IPv4 and not
> IPv6 is something that has been invented.  It has no basis on the 
> original assignment documents that the Legacy holders are pretending 
> their supposed "rights" derive from.
> 

Yet another total straw man.  No legacy holder is claiming the equivalancy
of IPv4 and IPv6.

> And, the Legacy holders know it.  They know perfectly well that there 
> isn't any such thing as special rights for them just because they got 
> addresses under different rules.  That is why they aren't suing ARIN for 
> free IPv6 assignments.

No, it's because they received the holdings under one set of rules,
and won't accept rule changes without carefully vetting them first,
which requires time and money.  You are worse then my 6-year-old
niece who constantly changed the rules of "Trouble" based on her
dice rolls.  Grow up!


> 
> The problem is that too many other people like you have swallowed this 
> "legacy holder rights' baloney and actually believe the lie.
> 

What lie?



> Ted
> 
>    We have known this time was going to
> > come for a very long time.  Here we are. It is what it is.
> >
> >
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> 

-- 
John Santos
Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.
781-861-0670 ext 539