[arin-ppml] Petition Underway - Policy Proposal 95: Customer Confidentiality - Time Sensitive

Fri Jan 29 18:54:11 EST 2010

Aaron Wendel wrote:
> I, of course, support my own petition although I don't know if I officially
> count.  It's unclear whether the 10 required supporters are in addition to
> the petitioner or including. 

I also noticed that was open to interpretation in the Member Services 
announcement.

> I believe Todd @ kcix posted a second time
> supporting the petition and the proposal.
> 

Yup, he did, I missed that.

> At the very least the requirement for the petition to succeed is 10 people
> from unique orgs.  I count 17 at this point that have posted publically.
> 

I looked specifically for people saying they supported the PETITION
not for people saying they supported the proposal, or the idea.

You can support the idea but not the proposal.  I definitely don't
support the proposal.  I am willing to look at the idea, however.  If
you can make a logical argument that the current policy as written
makes it impossible for ISP's to exclude private individuals or
residences in certain circumstances, I'd support a modification to
current policy.

The current proposal 95 is too simplistic for this, it is applying a
paint roller when an artists brush MIGHT be called for.

> As for discussion on the proposal itself my running count is 16 for and 5,
> including you, against.
> 

That is incorrect.  I supported the AC's decision to abandon this
and still do.  However that does not mean I don't support the petition.
I am, in fact, neutral on the petition itself.

You and the other supporters want to re-open discussion, because you
clearly aren't willing to re-read the archives as to why this kind
of proposal is generally a bad idea.  Well, OK.  I guess sometimes
people don't want to read boring old archives and prefer the lively
give and take of discussion.  I think it's
a diverting waste of time but since there's enough people that appear
to need it, I'll do my duty as an opponent and try to show you of
the error of your ways.

Just be warned that those who refuse to learn the lessons of history
are doomed to repeat them.

> Whether this proposal eventually passes a vote or not it seems to be
> bringing some new faces to the table and nothing bad can come from
> increasing the gene pool around here. :)
> 

Quite true.  And I would never presume to assume that the NRPM is
perfect as it is.  There's always room for adjustments.

Ted

> Aaron
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On
> Behalf Of Ted Mittelstaedt
> Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 5:11 PM
> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Cc: John Curran
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Petition Underway - Policy Proposal 95: Customer
> Confidentiality - Time Sensitive
> 
> 
>    So far I count 12 solid supporters of the petition.
> 
> They are:
> 
> jay at handynetworks.com   // Handy Networks LLC
> joe at joesdatacenter.com  //  Joe's Datacenter, LLC
> network at dimenoc.com  //DimeNoc  AS33182
> bicknell at ufp.org   - bicknell at ufp.org - CCIE 3440
> spamfree at wansecurity.com  Robert Smith, CISSP  WANSecurity, Inc.
> dsd at carpathiahost.com   Carpathia Hosting, Inc
> thorsten.ziegler at 1and1.com  1&1 Internet, AS8560
> lar at mwtcorp.net  ARIN ORG: CBS-129
> bill at herrin.us  AS 11875
> stephen.r.middleton at verizon.com  Verizon Services Operations
> raul at datavo.com  Datavo / AS26773
> tony at lava.net  LavaNet
> 
> 
> The following people stated they supported the policy but they
> didn't state that they supported the petition
> 
> todd at kcix.net
> 
> The following people supported the petition but didn't identify
> who they represent:
> 
> rudi.daniel at gmail.com
> marty at akamai.com
> rob at lagniappeinternet.com
> 
> Naturally the AC will need to make the "official" determination
> but it looks like we will be discussing this.
> 
> Marshall your arguments! :-)
> 
> Ted
> 
> 
> John Curran wrote:
>> ARIN Community - 
>>
>> I am reposting this Petition Announcement under a distinct subject 
>> line as otherwise not all mailing list participants may recognize 
>> that this process is underway.  This is neither a statement for or 
>> against the petition, and all statements of support posted under 
>> the original thread or this one will be counted in the total.
>>
>> /John
>>
>> John Curran
>> President and CEO
>> ARIN
>>
>> On Jan 28, 2010, at 5:02 PM, Member Services wrote:
>>
>>> With the message below a petition has started regarding the ARIN
>>> Advisory Council's decision to abandon Proposal 95: Customer
>>> Confidentiality. ARIN staff posted on 21 January 2010 to PPML that the
>>> ARIN Advisory Council (AC) had decided to abandon the proposal.
>>>
>>> If successful, this petition will change Proposal 95 into a Draft Policy
>>> which will be published for discussion and review by the community on
>>> the PPML and at the Public Policy Meeting in April. If the petition
>>> fails, the proposal will be closed.
>>>
>>> For this petition to be successful, it will need statements of support
>>> from at least 10 different people from 10 different organizations. If
>>> you wish to support this petition, post a statement of support to PPML
>>> on this thread. Point of contact information is required, either to the
>>> entire PPML or with a follow up post to petition at arin.net with full POC
>>> information (name, organization, street address, email, phone).
>>>
>>> The duration of the petition is five business days; it will end on 4
>>> February 2010. ARIN staff will post the result of the petition to PPML.
>>>
>>> For more information on starting and participating in petitions, see PDP
>>> Petitions at: https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp_petitions.html
>>>
>>> The proposal text is below and at:
>>> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html
>>>
>>> The ARIN Policy Development Process can be found at:
>>> https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Member Services
>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>>>
>>> #####
>>>
>>> Aaron Wendel wrote:
>>>> I do not feel the AC should abandon Policy Proposal 95: Customer
>>>> Confidentiality. I formally petition to move the following text forward
> for
>>>> discussion on the list and at the next Public Policy Meeting. I would
>>>> appreciate it if anyone this policy applies to would support moving this
>>>> proposal forward by posting statements in support of the petition to
> this
>>>> list.
>>>>
>>>> 1. Policy Proposal Name: Customer Confidentiality
>>>>
>>>> 2. Proposal Originator: Aaron Wendel
>>>>
>>>> 3. Proposal Version: 2.0
>>>>
>>>> 4. Date: 10 June 2009
>>>>
>>>> 5. Proposal type: new
>>>>
>>>> 6. Policy term: permanent
>>>>
>>>> 7. Policy statement:
>>>>
>>>> ISPs may choose to enter the customer's name along with the ISP's
>>>> address and phone number in reassignments and reallocations in lieu of
>>>> the customer's address and phone number.  The customer's actual
>>>> information must be provided to ARIN on request and will be held in the
>>>> strictest confidence.
>>>>
>>>> 8. Rationale:
>>>>
>>>> Version 2.0 clarifies the need for the customer name to remain in the
>>>> SWIP and RWHOIS information.
>>>>
>>>> Customer contact lists are one of the most proprietary and confidential
>>>> pieces of information in any business.  The requirements for ISPs to
>>>> publish those lists via SWIP or RWHOIS runs contrary to good business
>>>> practices and invites competitors and others to solicit both individuals
>>>> and companies receiving reassignments and sub allocations from upstream
>>>> providers.
>>>>
>>>> 9. Timetable for implementation: immediate
>>>>
>>>> Aaron Wendel Wholesale Internet, Inc. 324 E. 11th St.  Suite 1000
>>>> Kansas City, MO 64106
>>>> 816-256-3031
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> PPML
>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
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>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>>>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>>>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> PPML
>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
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>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
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>>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>> _______________________________________________
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> 
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