[arin-ppml] Straw Poll

[Davis, Terry L]

Ted

Generally right.

Fred, SmartGrid will have different security requirement levels depending on what is communicating.  SCADA and grid controls will not likely be in the same network with home broadcast control and pricing info (I sure wouldn't!  and v6 makes that simple separation even easier) nor will they use the same authentication. Industrial controls probably lie in between.

Just as FYI, there are appropriately 350 million meters in the US from some stats I saw earlier this week and that doesn't include any Grid infrastructure; just end user metering (certainly not frigs :-).  Anything that we can do to encourage good designs (i.e. IPv6) seems appropriate.  

FINALLY, we need to remember that existing "critical infrastructure" from Power to ICUs to water are likely to need some bridging IPv4 allocations to their "EXISTING" control networks before they can move them to IPv6.  At this point I'd be far more concerned about reserving some resources for bridging existing CI control networks than most anything else; those bridging resources are something we definitely should plan for.

Take care
Terry


> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On
> Behalf Of Ted Mittelstaedt
> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 5:27 PM
> To: Dan White
> Cc: RudOlph Daniel; arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Straw Poll
> 
> Dan White wrote:
> > On 06/10/09 10:26 -0700, Fred Baker wrote:
> >> I agree with you, but let me reflect some comments I have heard from
> >> the Smart Grid side of the house.
> >>
> >> One thing they are very worried about is running the SG over the
> >> Internet. They are interested in control - the term "control freak"
> >> has been used - and they don't see the Internet as all that well
> >> controlled. That's not universal, of course; The Cisco/Yello thing in
> >> Germany uses a subscriber's broadband connection, I believe a DMVPN.
> >> But many do want direct connectivity to their customers and the
> >> ability to directly manage at least some appliances and instruments in
> >> subscriber's homes - notably the electric meter.
> >
> > Suppose they take that approach... everything's on a private network,
> > including "approved" appliances. The meter reports current usage, and
> each
> > appliance reports its need for energy, and what times of the day it need
> it
> > - i.e. your futuristic electric car probably doesn't need to charge
> during
> > peak hours.
> >
> > What happens when someone compromises their appliances, or their car, to
> > game the system?
> >
> 
> To what end?  The whole idea behind the smart grid thing is driven by
> the idea that at some point in the future the electric utilities will
> be able to charge peak usage rates.  Meaning that if you have an
> appliance that has a CHOICE of whether it can draw power, it would
> choose off-peak.  In the refrigerator example, perhaps the icemaker in
> the refrigerator will shut off during the day.  And so on.
> 
> There is no benefit to gaming your appliances, either your going to
> draw power during peak or not.  The meter knows when it's supplying
> power during peak periods.  To gain anything you would have to
> compromise the meter, and if the meter is on a private network the
> only possible entry point for the compromise is from the downstream
> side, ie: the side plugged into the subscriber.  In which case it is a
> theft-of-power situation, and the utilities have been dealing with those
> for a century.
> 
> > Security won't be found in a private network or dependence on the
> ignorance
> > of users, but in sound security principals. It shouldn't matter how the
> > electric grid communicates - your home grid might choose to use your
> > broadband connection is a backup communication medium.
> >
> > If properly managed and designed, it would be in a consumer's best
> interest
> > to provide accurate information to the grid (because of pricing
> > incentives).
> >
> 
> I think the idea is the other way around, the grid tells the consumer
> when it would prefer that the consumer draw power.
> 
> Ted
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