[arin-ppml] IP Address Fee Structure Policy and the Right of Education
bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com
bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com
Mon Nov 30 10:43:50 EST 2009
thanks. this clarifies (for me) a little more of your situation.
--bill
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 04:35:47PM +0100, Christopher Mettin wrote:
> Our postal address is as follows:
>
> Gymnasium Querfurt High School
> An der Geispromenade 29
> Querfurt, ST 06268
>
> And an IP for example is 217.234.79.76, which is dynamically assigned by a
> German Service Provider.
>
> As far as I could figure it out, we get assignments in the range from
> 217.334.0.1 to 217.334.255.254.
>
> Why do you need that?
>
> Ah yeah, I am sorry if I have never told it in that way, legally the school
> is actually on American ground, we even have a Union flag with 51 stars in
> front of the school building.
>
> Any other questions?
>
> Sincerely yours,
> Christopher Mettin
> Gymnasium Querfurt High School
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com [mailto:bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 4:23 PM
> To: Christopher Mettin
> Cc: bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] IP Address Fee Structure Policy and the Right of
> Education
>
> the national science foundation is not under the department of defense.
> and actually, they did - due to agreement within the then Federal
> Networking
> Council - transfering responsiblity to the NSF from DoD.
>
> for further edification, may I ask a few questions?
>
> ) can you provide a postal address for Gymnasium Querfurt High School?
> ) what prefix(es) are you currently using? dynamic assignements from your
> ISP are fine.
>
> --bill
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 03:58:36PM +0100, Christopher Mettin wrote:
> > Is the NSF an agency under the Department of Defense? If not they had no
> > right to delegate ARIN control over IP address registrations.
> > And unfortunately I know what it means if a government organization
> approves
> > a plan of a commercial company -> lobbying. Not that lobbying would be
> > something bad, but sometimes it looks like not everyone was asked.
> >
> > Sincerely yours,
> > Christopher Mettin
> > Gymnasium Querfurt High School
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com [mailto:bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com]
>
> > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 2:18 AM
> > To: Milton L Mueller
> > Cc: bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com; Christopher Mettin
> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] IP Address Fee Structure Policy and the Right of
> > Education
> >
> >
> > well - here is one...
> >
> > http://128.150.4.107/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=102819
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com [mailto:bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com]
>
> > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 1:38 AM
> > To: Christopher Mettin
> > Cc: bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com
> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] IP Address Fee Structure Policy and the Right of
> > Education
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 04:09:25PM +0100, Christopher Mettin wrote:
> > >
> > > But would there generally be a problem with my model of assigning IP
> > > addresses to educational institutions through GQHS as LIR?
> > >
> > > Thank you.
> > >
> > > Sincerely yours,
> > > Christopher Mettin
> > > Gymnasium Querfurt High School
> > >
> >
> > don't really know. you'd have to ask ARIN.
> > and since this is the public policy list, not sure
> > that asking here is the same as asking ARIN.
> >
> > --bill
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 07:14:11PM -0500, Milton L Mueller wrote:
> > > Bill
> > > Would like to see any documents memorializing the "consent of the
> > governments of the region."
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net]
> On
> > > > Behalf Of bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com
> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 8:10 AM
> > > > To: Christopher Mettin
> > > > Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net
> > > > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] IP Address Fee Structure Policy and the Right
> > of
> > > > Education
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ARIN manages the IP space for its region based on the consent of its
> > > > members and the governments in that region.
> > > >
> > > > ARINs finances are a matter of public record - you can find them on
> the
> > > > ARIN web site.
> > > >
> > > > As for your proposal to replace ARIN with GQHS, I for one, would like
> to
> > > > see the dialog between you/GQHS and the IANA as a matter of public
> > record.
> > > >
> > > > If you would like to change the ARIN proceedures for address
> allocation
> > > > and
> > > > stewardship - the process is open and available to all. You just have
> > to
> > > > convince others to agree with you on your well thought out, viable
> > > > alternative.
> > > >
> > > > Please ensure that you either cover all the things ARIN does or find
> > other
> > > > parties to take on those roles.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Luck
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --bill
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 01:53:26PM +0100, Christopher Mettin wrote:
> > > > > ARIN Community,
> > > > >
> > > > > Why does ARIN manage the IP addresses allocated to North America?
> Did
> > > > they
> > > > > win a competition in cost-effeteness and reliability?
> > > > >
> > > > > And does ARIN show a proof that the fees cover at least 90% of their
> > > > > operating costs?
> > > > >
> > > > > If IANA would replace ARIN with GQHS today, I could offer everyone a
> > /20
> > > > > block for just $10 annually and no cent more. GQHS will also have
> less
> > > > > operation costs and that will save our environment a lot.
> > > > >
> > > > > I will propose this idea to IANA soon. Maybe "Virginian non-profit"
> > > > actually
> > > > > means they just don't have any stocks but I bet they make a million
> > > > revenue
> > > > > each year. At all, they are not the right organization to manage IP
> > > > > addresses it seems.
> > > > >
> > > > > Has anyone a problem with IP addresses given away for as cheap as a
> > .com
> > > > > domain?
> > > > >
> > > > > Sincerely yours,
> > > > > Christopher
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Per Heldal [mailto:heldal at eml.cc]
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 6:05 AM
> > > > > To: Christopher Mettin
> > > > > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] IP Address Fee Structure Policy and the
> Right
> > > > of
> > > > > Education
> > > > >
> > > > > On 11/29/2009 02:16 AM, Christopher Mettin wrote:
> > > > > > The fact that one can't access the Internet without an IP address
> > and
> > > > that
> > > > > > ARIN sells them.
> > > > >
> > > > > RIR's don't sell IP-addresses. Addresses are assigned for a
> documented
> > > > > purpose. The RIRs are not-for-profit organisations. The fee is not
> for
> > > > > the IP-addresses themselves, but rather to cover the administrative
> > > > > costs of running the RIR-operations organization.
> > > > >
> > > > > >> My suggestion would be that you hit up your respective ISPs to
> give
> > > > you
> > > > > >> static addresses at no extra charge for the good will and
> possible
> > > > tax
> > > > > >> benefits. Even if they're only willing to give you /29s, you can
> > > > > >> harmonize your RFC1918 address space use and use VPNs that
> properly
> > > > > >> reflect your security policies.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yep, VPS, you cannot set them up so easily if you don't have a
> > > > commonly
> > > > > > known (static) IP address of the end-point. Where should we send
> the
> > > > VPS
> > > > > > connection request if our IP always changes? Maybe try out every
> > host
> > > > on
> > > > > the
> > > > > > entire ISP subnet?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Our Internet connection is paid by the state. And under the
> current
> > > > > contract
> > > > > > we actually even not allowed to publish a simple website from our
> > > > network.
> > > > > > So why should they give us a static IP to make it easier for us to
> > do
> > > > so?
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You can not blame the internet-community for your organisation's
> > failure
> > > > > to negotiate a contract that meets your needs. I doubt you'll find a
> > > > > serious SP anywhere that doesn't offer contracts that include static
> > > > > addressing. So far there's been no mention of a need for
> multi-homing
> > > > > which normally is the key requirement to justify direct assignments.
> > > > > What difference does the fee make if you don't qualify for an
> > allocation
> > > > > in the first place.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > So the reason why ARIN should change its policies is that we want
> > ARIN
> > > > to
> > > > > > allocate us some IP addresses which are the only way for us to
> solve
> > > > our
> > > > > > little problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > You should resolve this with the people who are responsible for a
> > > > > service-contract that doesn't meet your functional requirements.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > //per
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > PPML
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