[arin-ppml] Alternate ways to get IPv4 (Re: Policy Proposal 102: Reduce and Simplify IPv4 Initial Allocations)

Ted Mittelstaedt tedm at ipinc.net
Tue Nov 10 22:38:01 EST 2009

Scott Leibrand wrote:
> Seth Mattinen wrote:
>> Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>> > Seth Mattinen wrote:
>> >> I don't remember. ARIN would have to find these orgs who are renting
>> >> their space out to brokers and revoke it somehow to put a stop to it.
>> >>
>> >
>> > No reason to.  ARIN charges org X with the spare space a fee, org X
>> > charges org Y who needs space, a fee.  The main thing is that the IP
>> > addressing is in use.  All Org's X responsibility to ARIN is that they
>> > keep it utilized and maintain the SWIPS on it.
>> >
>> > Those people aren't the problem.  The problem are the orgs getting
>> > the space then doing nothing with it.
>> >
>> I thought we weren't supposed to bypass ARIN to obtain IP addresses? 
>> i.e. I can't qualify for an /18 via ARIN and probably not my upstreams 
>> without lying, but I can via these guys because they don't care about 
>> utilization plans.
> The problem there is not that you're getting IPs from org X, it's that 
> you're doing so while ignoring ARIN policy regarding reassignment of 
> space to downstreams. 

Technically, org X is ignoring the policy by not doing due diligence,
org X should assume as a matter of course that potential "renters" or
customers will be ignorant of the ARIN requirements.

> If org X gives out space on a justified basis, 
> they can do so all they want.  It's when they (or an ISP, or any other 
> LIR) decide that they don't care about utilization plans that we have a 
> violation of ARIN policy.

Exactly.  Furthermore, for anything larger than a /19, section 
applies and ARIN must approve it, thus if the downstream is falsifying 
info, that's a falsification of data to ARIN, (in addition to the 
assigning ISP) and I would hope that ARIN would hold the assigning ISP's 
feet to the fire, since it would almost certainly take collusion between 
the assigning ISP and it's customer on falsified data for an assignment 
of that size.


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