[arin-ppml] Draft Policy 2009-1: Transfer Policy - Revised andforwarded to the Board

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin Kargel [mailto:kkargel at polartel.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 4:00 PM
> To: Ted Mittelstaedt; matthew at matthew.at
> Cc: arin ppml
> Subject: RE: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy 2009-1: Transfer Policy 
> - Revised andforwarded to the Board
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ted Mittelstaedt [mailto:tedm at ipinc.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 5:37 PM
> > To: Kevin Kargel; matthew at matthew.at
> > Cc: 'arin ppml'
> > Subject: RE: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy 2009-1: Transfer Policy - 
> > Revised andforwarded to the Board
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net
> > > [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Kevin Kargel
> > > Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 1:18 PM
> > > To: matthew at matthew.at
> > > Cc: arin ppml
> > > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy 2009-1: Transfer Policy
> > > - Revised andforwarded to the Board
> > >
> > 
> > > Rather than helping the problem the fact that this market 
> is being 
> > > discussed is exactly what is causing the hoarding.
> > 
> > I have to cry foul with this.  There's been implications of 
> hoarding 
> > on this list and in the last meeting but I have only seen a single 
> > allegation posted on this list of an illigitimate
> > IPv4 holding, and that was a year ago.  (and it wasn't a hoarding
> > situation)
> 
> Cry foul all you want but the situation still exists.  
> Perhaps I am misusing the term 'hoarding'.  Please suggest 
> another term for "holding on to unused
> IPv4 space with disregard for the good of the community until 
> the IPv4 space is worth a lot of money so I can sell it".
> 

OK, your referring to people not giving it up post-IPv4 runout,
not land-grabs pre-IPv4 runout

Also I think what your talking about is speculation, not hoarding.

> At this point whether or not the applications for space were 
> filled out faithfully is moot.  Also much of the unused space 
> was granted long before the applications we use today existed.  
> 
> > 
> > Since true hoarding implies false data submitted for an IPv4 
> > application, if anyone hs any concrete evidence that someone has 
> > falsified an application then they should immediately post 
> it, as well 
> > as turn it over to ARIN's hostmaster.
> > 
> > We have no problems in the US with posting all manner of discovered 
> > illegalities of companies doing actions like illegal 
> dumping, so I see 
> > no legal barrier to yelling foul if you can prove that someone's 
> > cheating with an IPv4 application.
> > 
> > I agree that once an unrestricted transfer proposal is in 
> NRPM that it 
> > will be an incentive to hoard, but it isn't in the NRPM yet.
> > And once it is in, it will only be an incentive, we don't know if 
> > people will actually cheat/hoard.
> 
> You don't think 2008-6 is an unrestricted transfer proposal?
> 

No.  It is restricted because of the sunset clause of 3 years in it.
Granted that's not the kind of restrictions I think you were thinking
about but it is a restriction.

> > 
> > Remember, the people who are pusing this transfer thing are ALSO 
> > waving around the spectre of hoarding as an emotional 
> appeal to try to 
> > get support for their transfer allowance into the NRPM.  
> Please take 
> > the high road on this.
> 
> I believe I am taking the high road and looking out for what 
> IMO is the good of the community. I just happen to believe 
> that it is necessary in this instance to be vocal. I very 
> rarely purposefully take the low road.
> 

I am just leery of people saying that such-and-such is happening right
now and offering no proof that it's actually happening.

Ted