[arin-ppml] [arin-announce] Policy Proposal: Transfer listingservice
tedm at ipinc.net
Fri Jun 12 17:13:25 EDT 2009
Stephen Sprunk wrote:
> Kevin Kargel wrote:
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On
>>> Behalf Of Scott Leibrand
>>> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 11:09 AM
>>> To: <michael.dillon at bt.com>
>>> Cc: <arin-ppml at arin.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] [arin-announce] Policy Proposal: Transfer
>>> That might work too, but ARIN counsel, the AC, and others involved thought it belonged in the 2008-2 transfer policy, and the CEO has said they don't plan to do a listing service without policy directing them to do so.
>>> What do you think of the idea itself?
>> Personally I do not want to see ARIN getting in to the broker business,
>> which is directly where a listing service is heading.
> I am against ARIN becoming a broker as well, and part of 2009-1 was
> intended to keep ARIN clear of that mess.
> However, a listing service does not a broker make. It is no different
> than putting up a bulletin board where people can post "want to buy" and
> "want to sell" notes; it does not make ARIN a broker, who is actually a
> party to each transaction.
>> If we take this initial step we might as well go ahead and fire up IP-Bay ..
> As others have noted, it may be more appropriate for an external party
> to run the listing service. However, multiple services would appear and
> be inconsistent with each other as each service tries to compete for
> profits on the fees they'd charge, and that leads to economic
> inefficiency, confusion, arbitrage, speculation, etc. -- all the things
> we know we need to try to avoid.
I disagree that this would happen. It COULD happen but I don't think so.
For starters, any listing service that offers FREE posting is going to
A listing website that does free posting will get a lot of traffic and
can EASILY make plenty of money off advertising. Also, since the
listing service isn't making money with the buyer/sellers, it does not
get entwined with people suing each other over misrepresentation, fraud,
During the housing boom of 2004-2006, I saw (in my own neighborhood)
a number of For Sale By Owner homes going through craigslist - they
NEVER touched the "official" multiple listing service, never paid
any fees for that, never paid any fees to any Realtor, never paid
fees to craigslist. All I saw is a FSBO sign on the front lawn and
a month later new owners.
If the market hadn't crashed, I think it would be more and more common
for people to do this with housing.
Typically you only pay a broker when your trying to sell something that
there's a LOT of already out there. For example, have you ever tried
selling a 5-10 year old business telephone system?
The broker then acts as a salesdog to rep. your old phone system or
whatever other thing to potential buyers.
But in IPv4 market, you have a precious commodity that everybody wants -
why pay a broker to sit on his a s s and take phone calls? If a central
listing service got going early on, charging no fees, it would rapidly
dominate - since buyers don't want to hunt all over the country looking
for IPv4, and sellers aren't going to want to pay a huge commission to
>> Once ARIN gets involved in this it will be a pandora's box of regulations,
>> litigations, tax accounting -- all sorts of odious stuff.. and that's just in the US.. my poor brain can't even start to comprehend the international implications.
> While I understand the concern, I will reserve comment on these issues
> because IANAL; ARIN has counsel and a Board to make sure our policies do
> not run afoul in such areas, and we have been instructed to make the
> policies we want and let them worry about the consequences -- and stop
> us or modify the policies if required to avoid problems.
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