[arin-ppml] Why are ISPs allowed?

[Kevin Kargel]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ted Mittelstaedt [mailto:tedm at ipinc.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 12:52 PM
> To: Kevin Kargel; ARIN-PPML at arin.net
> Subject: RE: [arin-ppml] Why are ISPs allowed?
> 
> 
> Q:  How do you eat an elephant?
> 
> A:  In small bites!
> 
> It's not impossible to upgrade 4K customers if you plan it and allocate
> enough time.  However, realistically what your actually seeing here is
> a political effort that should be supported.

In no way did I mean to imply that this was impossible or even undoable. It
is eminently possible, the doable just depends on how much expense you are
willing to expend.  

In a best case world you would have a bunch of customers within a stones
throw of an excellent technician that worked for minimum wage (Ha!  Like
that's gonna happen)..  if he takes a half hour to get to and work each
customer and you add in the cost of the truck and overhead and admin costs
you are still spending $30-$50 per customer for the upgrade.  

This in itself doesn't sound like much until you start to figure out what
the recovery time is for that money when you are talking about a
$29.95/month DSL customer.  

I am also not saying we will not invest this.  It is just something that
will naturally cause resistance to change.


> 
> All of the Linux-based DSL modems out there that are in production
> have already had the R&D money spent to develop their firmware code.
> Their manufacturers never planned or allocated funding to develop
> IPv6 code for these devices.  What the Broadband Forum is attempting
> to do is apply enough pressure to force these manufacturers to go back
> and spend more money developing firmware updates for devices that have
> already shipped out.  It's an admirable attempt and if it can get 1
> or 2 manufacturers out there to develop firmware for some devices then
> it's worth the effort.  I would for example like to see Netopia release
> IPv6 firmware for the Motorola model 3347 DSL modem that Qwest is
> currently
> shipping, and I don't think it would kill 2wire to release IPv6 firmware
> for it's model 2701 that both Qwest and SBC have used.
> 
> At the least for the Linux-based stuff these manufacturers should be
> prevailed on to release the firmware source so that the Linux community
> can add in IPv6 support if it wanted to.  The DD-WRT community already
> has a lot of experience doing this - and frankly, anything developed with
> Linux is required to release source under the terms of the GPL anyway.
> 
> My feeling, though, is that what really is going to be needed is a
> new generation of DSL modems with much faster processors that can
> do stateful inspection, because after IPv6 we can't depend on the
> pseudo-firewalling of a NAT to protect customer devices.
> 
> Just about all DSL modems in the field can be put into bridged mode
> so that is always an option - to bridge them then put an IPv6 router
> behind them.
> 
> Ted
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net
> > [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Kevin Kargel
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 8:22 AM
> > To: ARIN-PPML at arin.net
> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Why are ISPs allowed?
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net
> > [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net]
> > > On Behalf Of michael.dillon at bt.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 9:10 AM
> > > To: ARIN-PPML at arin.net
> > > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Why are ISPs allowed?
> > >
> > >
> > > >  CPE devices sold / rented by service providers could help the
> > > > transition... like the DOCSIS 3.0-based Motorola Surfboard sb6120.
> > >
> > > The Broadband Forum, (formerly DSL Forum) has included IPv6 in its
> > > BroadbandSuite specification X.X which is intended to be
> > released in
> > > 2009-2010. This covers DSL providers. In fact, many of the existing
> > > DSL boxes have the technical capability to support IPv6
> > today because
> > > they are Linux systems. They just have to install and test the
> > > software and integrate it into their control panel.
> >
> > Wow that sounds easy..  all I have to do is roll a truck to
> > 4000 customers, upgrade the firmware on their modems, install
> > and test the software and integrate it in to their control panels.
> >
> > It actually is easy if you are doing it for yourself and you
> > are technically competent..  but when you are talking about
> > what amounts to a forklift upgrade for an entire class of
> > customer the cost of this easy 'no new hardware' task is no
> > longer trivial.
> >
> > >
> > > More info here <http://www.getipv6.info/index.php/Broadband_CPE>
> > > including contact info for the Broadband Forum WG that is
> > working on
> > > this.
> > >
> > > --Michael Dillon
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > PPML
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