[arin-ppml] Alternative to arbitrary transfers

[Kevin Kargel]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ted Mittelstaedt [mailto:tedm at ipinc.net]
> Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 7:06 PM
> To: Kevin Kargel; 'ARIN PPML'
> Subject: RE: [arin-ppml] Alternative to arbitrary transfers
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net
> > [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Kevin Kargel
> > Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 4:30 PM
> > To: ARIN PPML
> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Alternative to arbitrary transfers
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Joe Maimon [mailto:jmaimon at chl.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 4:18 PM
> > > To: Ted Mittelstaedt
> > > Cc: 'Leo Vegoda'; Kevin Kargel; 'ARIN PPML'
> > > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Alternative to arbitrary transfers
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I don't see these alternatives in any way as creating a transfer
> > > > market - yet I see them as being able to generate reusable IPv4.
> > > > I would certainly like to have ARIN give them a try and
> > prove they
> > > > DON'T work before embarking on a transfer program.
> > >
> > > The downside is that ARIN becomes even more the bad guy.
> > >
> > > A transfer system could avoid all that.
> > >
> > > Doesnt mean I dont personally think all your ideas are
> > inevitable in
> > > one shape or another.
> >
> > OK, brainstorming more here..
> >
> > How about if:
> >
> > 1. IP holder "A" decides it wants to relinquish some IP's and
> > would like some remuneration..
> 
> Right here is the problem.
> 
> Holder A has his IP numbers purely due to his requesting the
> numbers on the basis of need.  In other words, the numbers were
> never "his" to give.  He's "renting" the use of them, just like
> you would rent a car.  We all would like renumeration for returning
> our rental cars, but that's not what we agreed to when we rented
> the car.

I don't think this is necessarily the case, especially as it pertains to
legacy IP's, where they are not renting the car, but someone gave them the
care to use for as long as they wanted free of charge.

> 
> Further, the org does
> not have the power to determine that he can continue to use the
> numbers - only ARIN does.  If ARIN decides for whatever reason -
> maybe they got tipped off by a signed deposition from a former
> employee of Holder A that the original basis of obtaining the
> numbers was a lie - then ARIN should have the authority to
> pull the numbering.  By giving IP Holder A the
> power to determine that it can relinquish IP allocations on
> any other basis than what they were originally obtained on - ie:
> need - your creating a very slipperly slope that is just
> encouraging lawsuits that would pry away at more of ARIN's
> authority.

Hmm..  more lawsuits..  which court would this be in?  US law?  Canadian
law? Mexican law? Maybe ARIN needs to move offshore.

> 
> Even the credit from ARIN is a slippery slope and personally I
> don't like it - but I'm willing to suggest it as a bone to the
> pro-transfer people.
> 
> Ted

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