[arin-ppml] Privacy rights & IP number whois ( was Re: The LRSA$100 fee...)

Kevin Kargel kkargel at polartel.com
Tue Sep 2 12:23:30 EDT 2008

>From the ISP's perspective, the Whois reports information for the contacts
that the IP address is assigned to.  I have thousands of customers, most of
which are transitory in nature.  Keeping records in whois for thousands of
transitory customers would be an unrealistic burden.

There is already a system in place that very nicely allows copyright holders
access to the customer.  When there is an infringement the copyright holder
files a report with law enforcement, law enforcement provides me with a
subpeona and I provide them with every bit of data I have to satisfy the
subpoena.  This is a good and working heirarchical system that protects
everyones rights and allows the laws to be justly enforced at the same time.

If the issue is a DoS issue, then as the ISP my name is publicly available
on the IP record, and I would be the appropriate contact anyway.  If there
is a problem of abuse from an IP within my edges I can quickly and easily
block, limit or otherwise deal with the problem.  

I think the system that is in place is for the most part well designed and
working.  Some streamlining could be done but those are minor points. 

-----Original Message-----
From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On
Behalf Of Milton L Mueller
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 11:13 AM
To: McTim
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Privacy rights & IP number whois ( was Re: The
LRSA$100 fee...)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: McTim [mailto:dogwallah at gmail.com] I think that question is 
> disingenuous,

No, it isn't. And your response proves it, because it says exactly what I
thought it would:

> The level of specificity of IP
> Whois has always been granularly set so that the appropriate folk can 
> be contacted in case of network trouble/abuse/DDos/outage, not for any 
> socio-economic reason.

Right! Exactly. So first we establish the PURPOSE of the data, and what are
the limits of its appropriate use, and THEN we can settle on how "complete
and accurate" it is. 

The problem with DNS Whois is that the order of those questions has been

On the other hand, if you put a bunch of commercially and legally useful but
potentially sensitive private information into Whois that can be used
indiscriminately for any purpose by any person on the planet at any time and
for any reason, then people are going to deliberately put shielded or
guarded or inaccurate information into it.

> Yes, but that wasn't TVs query, which was:
> >> 1. Do you think that the completeness and accuracy of current DNS 
> >> whois is the right standard for IP number whois?

I don't think _anything_ about current DNS Whois should serve as a model for
IP address Whois. Not the access policy, not the accuracy or "completeness"
not anything. 

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