[arin-ppml] Policy Proposal 2008-4 - Staff Assessment

cja@daydream.com packetgrrl at gmail.com
Thu Oct 9 21:35:46 EDT 2008


David,

Although I get what you're saying currently the Arctic Regions aren't asking
for a change in ARIN policy.   This proposal was asked for by a specific
subset of our community and it was written in an effort to serve the needs
of that community.    I personally feel that the ARIN staff has defined that
region in their response to this proposal.  I am not wedded to its name and
if we want to call this policy something else that's fine.  I object to
making it a kitchen sink proposal (which will definitely delay this proposal
from approval) that includes segments of the community that didn't ask for
and don't necessarily need this policy.

----Cathy

On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 4:20 PM, David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu> wrote:

> I really liked Michael's Dillon's editorial suggestions from earlier, that
> I'll
> summarize, and maybe change slightly here;
>
> 1. Find a different name for it, "Caribbean Region", at least by itself,
> doesn't
> work, maybe "Caribbean Region and assorted islands".
>
> 2. Add the other assorted islands that are part of the ARIN Region,
> probably
> Antarctica too.  Basically anything not US and Canada.  If this is
> justified for
> the Caribbean, it is justified for these other islands and Antarctica too.
>
> 3. Explicitly define the Countries and Territories included by official
> destinations.
>
> I brought up that maybe even the Arctic Regions of the US and Canada
> could be included in the future, but that they should not be included now
> because of the difficulty of finding a workable definition and consensus
> for it.
> Honestly, please lets not even talk about including any part of the US and
> Canada for now.  I regret even mentioning the idea earlier, even if it was
> to
> only to say not to do it as it would bog things down.
>
> So back to what to call this thing;  I'm really not sure what the term is
> we are
> talking about here, but it includes factors of Remoteness, Sparsity of
> Population, and Sparsity of Infrastructure. It is really the product of the
> all
> these factors.  It is one of those things where I think you know it when
> you
> see it, but you really can't explain it.  I haven't found a name for it,
> but maybe
> you could call it an Internet Desert, just a thought, but it doesn't work
> for the
> title of this policy.
>
> As I said earlier, I support this important policy and call for the
> inclusion of
> these other miscellaneous islands, and including them isn't really a
> material
> change to the concept here.
>
> David Farmer
>
> On 9 Oct 2008 Scott Leibrand wrote:
>
> > Didn't this whole thread start from a staff assessment of which countries
> > and territories would be included?  If that definition is accurate and
> > reflects what we want from the policy, then it doesn't seem that any
> > further changes are necessary...
> >
> > -Scott
> >
> > David Williamson wrote:
> > > On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 01:34:28PM -0400, Leo Bicknell wrote:
> > >> So I don't believe population density has anything to do with the
> > >> problem, and I would not support taking the definition in a direction
> > >> that uses population density as a metric.
> > >
> > > I agree that population density isn't the relevant point, but I don't
> > > think it's as simple as geography either.  If it is, what about
> > > something like Catalina Island off of LA?  That's clearly not in scope
> > > for this proposal.
> > >
> > > I think the challenges in the Caribbean stem from a combination of
> > > geographic isolation *and* separate political (and regulatory)
> > > environments.
> > >
> > > That said, the proposal is a bit odd geographically.  It doesn't
> > > actually contain a definition of who is (and isn't) part of that
> > > region.  I assume Bermuda is included, even though it is not notably
> > > close the Caribbean.  Politically, Bermuda has much in common with St.
> > > Pierre and Miquelon, although the populations are of different scale.
> > > I couldn't find a definition of "Caribbean region" in a quick search of
> > > the ARIN website either, so this proposal is a bit ambiguous.  Does an
> > > ISP in the Florida Keys qualify under this policy?  The intent is
> > > clearly to not allow that.
> > >
> > > I support the intent of this policy.  I'd prefer to see a policy that
> > > either listed the relevant countries and territories (directly or be
> > > reference to some other document within ARIN), or simply said non-US
> > > and non-Canada portions of the ARIN region.
> > >
> > > -David
> > > _______________________________________________
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>
>
> =======================================================
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