[ppml] NANOG IPv4 Exhaustion BoF
drc at virtualized.org
Fri Mar 7 00:51:20 EST 2008
On Mar 5, 2008, at 3:29 PM, Scott Leibrand wrote:
>> What are 'negative impacts'?
> I think you outlined a few of them earlier today, but they would
> include the results of a number of different types of speculation
> (unnecessary volatile prices, scarcity, etc.), hoarding of addresses
> for various reasons (speculation, attempts to starve out
> competitors, etc.), and unnecessary deaggregation.
With the exception of the last, all of these consequences are part and
parcel of the fact that the IPv4 free pool is exhausted. Put enough
constraints on transfers and people won't bother. End result:
hoarding (for some value of that variable), speculation via a black
market, etc. The only thing the policy will have done is decrease
ARIN's relevance in the post IPv4 free pool exhaustion world since the
registration database will become less and less useful over time.
As far as I can tell, the whole point of allowing transfers is to get
allocated-but-unused address space back into play. If people hoard or
buy it all up as a speculative effort, we're no worse off than we are
when the IPv4 free pool is emptied, right?
As for unnecessary deaggregation, what is or is not necessary is
likely a matter of opinion. I firmly believe ISPs will look after
themselves as they have done in the past and are doing so today by
applying filters if they feel their infrastructure is at risk. In
this particular respect, we've been here before and some folks still
have the T-shirts (hopefully they've been washed). I'd be curious to
understand why past solutions would not apply.
>> I have a couple more fundamental questions:
>> a) What is the overarching goal the transfer policy is trying to
> If there were just one goal, this would be easy. We're trying to
> ensure the continued availability of IP resources after IPv4 free
> pool exhaustion, minimizing disruption, minimizing unnecessary
> deaggregation, preserving some level of fairness, etc...
By this description, it would seem the policy is attempting to put
ARIN in the position of being an arbiter of quite a few thing things
it hasn't taken on before, e.g., "fairness" (fair to whom?),
"availability" (for whom?), "unnecessary deaggregation" (from whose
perspective), etc. I might suggest there are many, many mines in that
particular field and that ARIN is not necessarily in the best position
to blaze a path there.
>> b) What tools exist (or can be expected to exist given reasonable
>> time/resources) to enforce that policy?
> The main tool is that, as the recognized authority in registration
> of IPv4 addresses in North America, recognition as valid of any
> transfers by ARIN has considerable value to both transferors and
So it would seem a core criteria in any policy would be to minimize
effects that would force folks to go elsewhere to have their transfers
>> - the 6 month restriction could force folks to go outside the
>> policy in desperation (e.g., the amount of address space available
>> via transfers is likely to be hard to predict. You could be in a
>> situation where at one point in time, the only option is a small
>> block even though you know it won't last 6 months. What option do
>> you have?)
> You could get PA space from your ISP or another LIR.
I am assuming the folks most interested in getting address space will
be ISPs so they can continue adding customers. Is the assumption of
this policy that the consumers of address space are end users?
> The intent of a the transfer policy is that it would ensure the
> availability of blocks of all sizes legitimately demanded by
> transferees. Therefore, if we do it right, there should always be
> an appropriately sized block available at some price.
> Rather, we hope to prevent the transfer of large numbers of small
> blocks when a larger one would do, as we don't want networks to be
> cobbling together their IP space from multiple sources and then
> being forced to announce extra routes for all the different blocks.
I fear the restrictions you are imposing will make it essentially
impossible to "do it right" and will result in folks with address
space finding other outlets in which to meet the needs of those who
need address space. However, perhaps I misjudge the situation.
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