[arin-ppml] Creating a market for IPv4 address space in absence of routing table entry market

[Owen DeLong]

On Jun 16, 2008, at 3:16 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote:

>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com
> [mailto:bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com]
>>> We have very strong reasons to assume that people do want to buy
>>> addresses. We know less about whether people will sell addresses. I
>>> agree, it's an uncertain situation.
>>
>> 	"we" is whom in this context?
>
> Everyone I know of involved in this discussion, with the possible
> exception of you. ;-)
>
I am also involved in the discussion and have no strong reason to
assume that people want to buy addresses.

In fact, I'm trying very hard not to assume anything in this discussion
as I think that assumptions are not what is needed in this situation.
I think there has been far too much of that and it has lead to very
bad conclusions in at least two registries.

>> 	"strong reasons" - which are?  please elaborate the reasons
>> 		and why they are particularly strong?
>
> Is this a trick question? The strong reasons are the continued fast
> growth in the ipv4 Internet, the depletion of the v4 free pool and the
> huge uncertainty regarding the leap to ipv6.
>
Seems like a valid question to me. Those are all reasons to believe
that something different probably needs to occur soon.  I do not
see any strong tie between that and the assumption that people
will want to buy addresses.  I suspect that if purchasing them becomes
the path of least resistance to obtaining addresses, sure, there's
good reason to believe people will resort to that.

However, I believe the substantive part of this discussion is more along
the lines of should we make that the path of least resistance, so, I  
don't
see how that helps the discussion.

>> 	I still have no assurance
>> 	that my ISP will be willing or able to route packets - but that
>> 	issue is not something ARIN (or any RIR) can do anything about.
>
> That was precisely my point. If ARIN or any other RIR authorizes  
> address
> transfers, that act in and of itself neither undermines nor improves
> routability.

This is not necessarily true.  Up to this point, because ARIN has taken
some care to avoid doing things leading directly to massive dis- 
aggregation,
there is some level of credibility given to ARIN-issued address space
by ISPs in general.  While ARIN cannot and does not guarantee
routability and ISPs are free to do what they want independent of ARIN,
it would be a radical change for ARIN to completely disregard the
history and context here.

I'm not sure whether it would be a good or a bad radical change, but, it
would be a radical change.

Owen