[ppml] IPv6 flawed?
dean at av8.com
Tue Sep 18 21:34:00 EDT 2007
On Tue, 18 Sep 2007, Kevin Kargel wrote:
> > > So far as I know, Legacy owners have no license from "the
> > government"..
> > > there is no piece of paper from "the government" giving them rights.
> > > Maybe I am wrong, but I have not heard of such a document.
> > There is indeed a piece of paper, and ARIN keeps it in a book.
> > Registrations were originally by paper and mail. I suppose
> > you young'uns don't know what those are. We also didn't have
> > cell phones back that, and numeric pagers were "cool", unless
> > you had to carry one for work.
> But that piece of paper is not from a "government". ARIN is not a
> governmental agency or department,
The legacy paper is not from ARIN. It is from SRI, or NetSol, on behalf
of the government. The government told SRI to give the records to
NetSol. SRI didn't invent that transfer. Then the G. told NetSol to give
the records to ARIN. NetSol didn't invent that. The G. can tell ARIN to
give the records to someone else. The records don't belong to ARIN.
ARIN is just the administrator.
The 'paper', electronic records of delegation, you get from ARIN is on
behalf of the government. The RSA terms are different from the legacy
terms. Even within the ARIN RSA regime, there are different sets of
terms, as the court found in the Kremen case: It found 3 different sets
of terms that Kremen could accept.
> they are not paid through tax dollars, they do not carry the "force of
ARIN doesn't have to be a goverment agency 'paid by tax dollars with
force of law' to administer government records. Many government
activities are paid directly through fees to private contractors, as the
toll road operation example demonstrates. The government has long used
private contractors to perform some functions for the government, and
the practice is increasing. The lack of tax dollars and force of law
does not prove your claim that the records are the private property of
ARIN and that ARIN can do with them as it pleases.
BTW, some government agencies paid by tax dollars don't have 'force of
law' (NIST comes to mind as an example of that)
The records are government records, licenses/leases, that ARIN maintains
and administers and in return collects fees. Just like the toll road
operator maintains the road and in return collects fees.
> I still maintain that legacy holders hold no license from any
> government to the use of those numbers.
You seem to have no facts to support that argument, and what facts there
are, contradict that view.
> I also still maintain that we should let them continue to use them,
> but because it is right, not because it would be illegal to do
It is right. And it is also illegal to do otherwise (well, illegal isn't
the precisely correct word. It violates the legal rights of the legacy
in the license/lease to do otherwise; 'illegal' usually suggests there
is a law that would be violated by doing so, which isn't the case)
Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service?
www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service
617 344 9000
More information about the ARIN-PPML