[ppml] Policy Proposal 2007-8: Transfer Policy Clarifications
Ed.Lewis at neustar.biz
Thu Apr 26 10:58:00 EDT 2007
Perhaps it is a bit late to respond to this, but I didn't get to see
mail until this morning. And I think that what I am about to say
here is something I already expressed at the mic earlier in the week.
The case I am concerned with is number resources "issued" without a
registration service agreement in place, more concretely and
colloquially described as legacy space or "space gotten from Postel."
But I suppose that is a matter for another would-be policy proposal.
At 18:29 -0400 4/22/07, Azinger, Marla wrote:
>Ed and All- I'm a little behind getting my response out, sorry. I
>think your concerns about wording should be looked at. Hopfully I'm
>not missing some postings to this that already resolved your
>concerns. If there are...just ignore this email. ;o)
>I worked on some rewrites of the text you are concerned about. I
>thought it might be good to have some rewritten text suggestions put
>out to everyone so that if we decide we dont like how it is
>currrently written, we can already start looking at another way of
>saying "what we mean". So here are my suggestions to the parts that
>may need some rewriting.
>1. Current proposal verbage:
>"It should be understood that number resources are not "sold" under ARIN
>administration. Rather, number resources are assigned to an organization
>for its exclusive use for the purpose stated in the request, provided
>the terms of the Registration Services Agreement continue to be met and
>the stated purpose for the number resources remains the same. Number
>resources are administered and assigned according to ARIN's published
>Number Resources are managed as a finite resource and not as a
>commodity. Number resources are assigned or allocated to an
>organization for its exclusive use for the purpose stated in the
>request, provided the terms of the registration services agreement
>continue to be met and the stated purpose for the Number Resources
>remains the same. Number Resources are to be managed in accordance
>with ARIN's Published Policies.
>2. Current proposal verbage:
>"Number resources are issued, based on justified need, to organizations,
>not to individuals representing those organizations. Thus, if a company
>goes out of business, regardless of the reason, the point of contact
>(POC) listed for the number resource does not have the authority to
>sell, transfer, assign, or give the number resource to any other person
>or organization. The POC must notify ARIN if a business fails so the
>assigned number resources can be returned to the available pool of
>number resources if a transfer is not requested and justified."
>Under the circumstance of an organization closure where said
>organization has Number Resources from ARIN, said organization must
>notify ARIN to either return the Number Resources to ARIN or
>transfer the Number Resources in accordance with ARIN Policy
>(reference section 8.2 and 8.3).
>From: ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:ppml-bounces at arin.net]On Behalf Of
>Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 7:55 PM
>To: ppml at arin.net
>Cc: ed.lewis at neustar.biz
>Subject: Re: [ppml] Policy Proposal 2007-8: Transfer Policy
>At 12:15 -0500 3/2/07, Member Services wrote:
>>Policy Proposal 2007-8: Transfer Policy Clarifications
>>Author: Paul Andersen
>>Proposal Version: 1.0
>>It should be understood that number resources are not "sold" under ARIN
>>administration. Rather, number resources are assigned to an organization
>What I find a bit confusing is the difference between the thought
>that ARIN "leases" resources versus the thought that a company might
>"sell" resources from one to another.
>(An off-shoot of this comes from the fee discussion in APNIC, where
>resources whose registration is static see the per-year fees
>decrease. This reflects the nature of the activity as that of
>managing a registry and not as a "LAN-lord.")
>>not to individuals representing those organizations. Thus, if a company
>>goes out of business, regardless of the reason, the point of contact
>>(POC) listed for the number resource does not have the authority to
>>sell, transfer, assign, or give the number resource to any other person
>>or organization. The POC must notify ARIN if a business fails so the
>>assigned number resources can be returned to the available pool of
>>number resources if a transfer is not requested and justified.
>What exactly does "going out of business" mean? A company can be
>absorbed by another through a purchase and the brand name tossed away
>while still maintaining the need for the resources.
>In a way I can see this saying the transfers can never happen,
>meaning that if I buy someone's hosting service I may have to apply
>for new addresses. Worse is the thought that I'd have to renumber if
>I don't get the transfer of resources.
>I'm asking an obtuse question because the text doesn't say which
>POC(s) is/are involved. What if the POC is a role account that
>transfers with the rest of a once independent company?
>>8.2 Transfer Requirements
>>ARIN will consider requests for the transfer of number resources only
>>upon receipt of evidence that the new entity has acquired the assets
>>which had, as of the date of the acquisition or proposed reorganization,
>>justified the current entity's use of the number resource. Examples of
>>assets that justify use of the number resource include, but are not
>I pretty much agree with the intent of this proposal...it's the words
>I am quibbling about in the previous section.
>>Staff analysis and community comments have a problem with the
>>inconsistent use of the terms "ASN" and "IP Address" in this section
>>which leads to confusion on which resources can be transferred. The
>>entire section now utilizes the term "number resources" to clarify what
>>would appear to be the original intent.
>I have come across people that find the ARIN on-web flow-chart
>confusing because AS numbers are not included in the prose. And I
>have been told that the prose comes from the policy. So I'll add a
>data point saying that this is in need or updating.
>Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468
>Sarcasm doesn't scale.
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Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468
Sarcasm doesn't scale.
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