[ppml] The WIANA registry

[Owen DeLong]

--On Friday, May 2, 2003 10:29 +0100 Michael.Dillon at radianz.com wrote:

>> 1. If they are assigned later the space they hijacked, this legitimates
>> hijacking and the next thing you know every mom and pop network on earth
>> is going to hijack address space and try to get it legitimized. Hey, why
>> not me too?
>
> Experience shows that slippery slopes rarely work that way because there
> are usually many limiting factors that prevent things from getting out of
> hand. In this instance, I think that there is some precedent for what
> WIANA is doing with IP addresses. Their activities are not that different
> from what AMPR does with 44/8. See here for more info on AMPR
> http://www.ampr.org/amprnet.html
>
Difference being that AMPR got it assigned legitimately before using it.
Other difference being that AMPR always intended to link it to the Internet.

I'm not saying I think the slippery slope applys (or even matters if it 
does).

My opinion on this whole thing (which I don't think can be solved by LDAP),
is that:
	1.	WIANA isn't doing anything ARIN should support.
	2.	WIANA isn't doing anything we should really care one way
		or the other about.  They're running a private non-
		connected network, and they've chosen to have their
		own namespace for the addressing.  Who cares.

I don't understand why this thread won't die.

Owen
>> 2. If they are not assigned the space and 1.0.0.0/8 is delegated to
>> someone else they're going to whine about IANA or ARIN or whoever being
>> that all-mighty evil entity that does not understand the need of the
>> people blah blah.
>
> Exactly. That's why I think that the RIR community and IANA should work
> with WIANA now to legitimize their claim for IP address space. They do
> have a legitimate claim to a globally unique block and they are totally
> unlike the normal applicants for RIR space. Whether or not their activity
> justifies a whole /8, I don't know. But looking at the way that 44/8 is
> being managed and also the way that 24/8 was issued to the cable
> industry,  I expect that it is reasonable to reserve 1/8 for possible
> future wireless  network growth and to issue some subset of 1/8 today.
>
I disagree.  I think that if WIANA submits a legitimate application for
address space to an RIR or IANA, it should be evaluated according to
policy and on it's merits.  If they don't, I don't see any reason for
any of them to get involved.  ARIN has enough things to work on without
seeking out additional workload because someone else either doesn't
want to connect to the internet, or, chose not to work through the
existing process.  Making an exception for them because someone
posted a troll on the ppml list certainly sets a bad precedent, regardless
of the viscosity of the slope involved.


>> That's a lose-lose situation. If they could justify the space they
>> should have requested it in the first place instead of hijacking it.
>
> Clearly they did apply somewhere for address space and were turned down.
> The whole IP address allocation issue is so bloody confusing and poorly
> documented that it does not surprise me that they went off on their own.
>
OK... That's their choice.  I don't believe that creates an obligation
for everyone else to then give them what they've chosen to take on their
own.  I see no reason to make an exception for these people.  If you feel
the process needs change, then submit appropriate policy proposals.
If the community feels the changes are appropriate and desirable, they'll
become policy.  If not, then that is the choice of the community.  I
accepted this with my proposal.  I'd elaborate more, but I'm afraid
my email would develop too many words.

> Does any RIR have a simple and clear set of instructions for first-time
> applicants to follow that includes an appeal procedure? NO! And that is
> the crux of the problem with organizations that are not mainstream ISPs.
>
Does the FCC have a simple and clear set of instructions for obtaining
an FM Broadcast license?  No.  Does the DMV have a simple and clear st of
instructions for obtaining a heavy euqipment operator license?  Not in
California, at least.  Yet, somehow, there is no shortage of FM stations
or Heavy Equipment operators (at least here in CA).  I agree the 
instructions
are desirable, but, their lack of existance doesn't justify what you are
proposing.

Owen