[hm-staff] Re: [ppml] RIR shopping -- AND MORE
Bill Darte
billd at cait.wustl.edu
Tue Mar 4 09:37:07 EST 2003
I believe that there are differences within regions which suggest a need to
differeniate policy and procedure. Anne's email illustrates this nicely.
'Suggestion' of need is not necessarily need itself, however. One might
undertake painstaking effort to substantiate those needs. But would it be
worth it?
Cost-benefit is always an important element of assessment, but not the only
one. Some may feel slighted by a given policy, especially when another RIR
seems to have a relaxed rule-set. Others, who are not impinged, feel no
pain an the point it mute to them. Such are the vagaries of every market,
indeed wherever rules are applied.
RIRs could align their policies precisely.... (recall the term painstaking
from above). This effort may be 'worth it' for certain policy or for
certain groups, and not for others. Who is to decide?
Well, clearly in my mind, it is the stakeholders of each region. While I
would assert that 'most' feel that to the extent 'reasonable', not
'possible', policy should be aligned. Where stakeholders, through defined
policy proposal procedures, form differing consensus.....well, that is what
must be done. Should those elected entities within the RIR evaluate the
effect of such differences? Sure. Should the play devil's advocate and
point out the potential side effects of differences? Sure. Should they
advocate and demand precise alignment? No. IMO.
We can tweak many aspects of the current practice of policy making and
alignment, but I suggest that the process in not broken. To my way of
thinking, policies are aligned across regions, but they are not always the
same.
Bill Darte
ARIN Advisory Council
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anne Lord [mailto:anne at apnic.net]
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 8:58 PM
> To: Einar Bohlin
> Cc: ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [hm-staff] Re: [ppml] RIR shopping -- AND MORE
>
>
>
> Einer,
>
> Just one clarification and one comment:
>
> At 08:43 PM 3/3/2003 -0500, Einar Bohlin wrote:
> >RIR shopping? Check this out:
> >
> >The initial IP allocation policies for ARIN and APNIC both
> >get you a /20 (see below for more info), but the
> >requirements and what you have to do after you
> >get the net are different.
> >
> >The fastest way to get your own IPs:
> >ARIN - Be multihomed and using a /21
> >APNIC - Be using a /22 (or need one today)
> >
> >Assuming the ISP wants to renumber into their
> >own nets, what renumbering are they faced with?
> >
> > best case typical worst case
> >ARIN /21 /20 or more
> >APNIC zero renumbering needed /22
>
> This is not quite correct. There is a renumbering
> requirement. The policy
> states:
>
> "To be eligible to obtain an initial allocation, an LIR must:
>
> - have used a /22 from their upstream provider or demonstrate
> an immediate
> need for a
> /22;
> - have complied with applicable policies in managing all
> address space
> previously
> allocated to it;
> - demonstrate a detailed plan for use of a /21 within a year; and
> - commit to renumber from previously deployed space into the
> new address
> space within
> one year"
>
> details are in:
> http://www.apnic.net/docs/policy/add-manage-policy.html#9.3
>
> The reason that the criteria are slightly less restrictive in
> the APNIC
> region is in recognition of regional development. ie. the
> Internet is much
> less mature as an industry in many economies in the region
> and their market
> base is just much slower in gathering momentum. This was
> deemed important
> by the community and the policies reflect this.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> regards,
>
> Anne
> ______________________________________________________
> Anne Lord, Manager, Policy Liaison <anne at apnic.net>
> Asia Pacific Network Information Centre phone: +61 7 3858 3100
> http://www.apnic.net
> fax: +61 7 3858
> 3199
> ______________________________________________________
>
>
> >Note that ARIN stipulates that the ISP needs to use the
> >entire /20 in 3 months, APNIC only wants a /21 to be used
> >within a year.
> >
> >If I were a new shopper with the ability to do so,
> >I'd have to consider APNIC.
> >
> >IMHO ARIN's more strict policy is outdated; it
> >applied to a time when registering IPs was fashionable.
> >APNIC's policy is more reasonable.
> >
> >It would be great to be able to allocate IPs based
> >on up to a year's utilization. Recently a downstream got
> >a /23, then a follow up /22 and now wants more; those routes
> >add up. Where is the harm if we'd initially allocated a larger
> >range, corresponding to a longer timeframe of use.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Einar Bohlin, IP Analyst
> >IP Team - Ashburn Virginia - WorldCom
> >Phone: 703 886-7362 (VNET 806-7362)
> >email: einar.bohlin at wcom.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >ARIN http://www.arin.net/policy/ipv4.html#ispinitial [/20]
> >
> >The efficient utilization of an entire previously allocated
> /20 from their
> >upstream ISP.
> >
> >[or]
> >
> >Multi-homed organizations that have efficiently utilized a
> /21 may be
> >allocated a /20. In order to receive an initial allocation
> from ARIN,
> >multi-homed organizations must:
> >
> >Provide detailed information showing that a /20 will be
> utilized within
> >three months.
> >
> >
> >
> >APNIC http://www.apnic.net/docs/policy/add-manage-policy.html
> >
> >9.3 Criteria for initial allocation [/20]
> >To be eligible to obtain an initial allocation, an LIR must:
> >
> >have used a /22 from their upstream provider or demonstrate
> an immediate
> >need for a /22;
> >have complied with applicable policies in managing all address space
> >previously allocated to it;
> >demonstrate a detailed plan for use of a /21 within a year; and
> >commit to renumber from previously deployed space into the
> new address
> >space within one year.
> >
> >9.4 Criteria for subsequent allocations
> >After the initial allocation to an LIR, all subsequent
> allocations will
> >depend on the following:
> >
> >the LIR's verified usage rate (which is the rate at which
> the LIR made
> >assignments and sub-allocations from relevant past allocations);
> >their documented plans for address space; and
> >their degree of compliance with APNIC policies with respect
> to relevant
> >past allocations.
> >Based on these factors, APNIC and NIRs will allocate enough
> address space
> >to meet the LIR's estimated needs for a period up to one
> year. If APNIC or
> >the NIR make an allocation based on a period of less than
> one year, then
> >they must inform the LIR of the length of the period and the
> reasons for
> >selecting it.
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Hostmaster-staff mailing list
> >Hostmaster-staff at apnic.net
> >http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/hostmaster-staff
>
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