[ppml] RIR's should have power to suspend Member's registration in specified circumstances

[Ed Allen Smith]

In message <001a01c27c6b$69bcc900$f9ecdfd8 at laptoy> (on 25 October 2002 15:13:38 -0600), john at chagres.net (John M. Brown) wrote:
> how do you intend to have the RIR's tell me what I can
> and can't accept in my routing table ?

In the case of an ISP doing business in the US, if someone else now is
listed as the proper user of said IP addresses in the official listing (so
long as ARIN is regarded as official by ICANN, which is in turn regarded as
official by the US government - especially given that the US government's
Department of Commerce governs the root servers) but an ISP is refusing to
treat them as such, the new user now has a pretty good cause for a lawsuit
and injunction against said ISP.

> How do they enforce telling me what I can and can't have
> in my routing table?

It can also mean changing the entries in the root servers, as another means
of making it clear who's the proper user of said IP addresses. I prefer this
means, personally, since I don't like getting government involved.

> What happens when the RIR makes a mistake and drops YAHOO.COM
> for 28 hours ?

A period of 5 days is reasonable. If it isn't corrected by then, that's when
you start punishing.

> Who is financially liable for that mistake?

The RIR operators are if they're the ones making the goof.

> define __large__ number  of addresses.

At least one /8 - Haliburton's. See http://www.rfc-ignorant.org, and the
ipwhois.rfc-ignorant.org blacklist, for further data.

> Who would then clean them out of the various RBL lists ?

That would seem to be cause for lawsuits in and of itself against the old
ISP for its behavior.

> Seems that if you don't like traffic coming from specific
> addresses, an ACL on your side would be the best choice.

Certainly, if there was an unlimited number of IP addresses available. As it
is, the RFC establishing the existence of the RIRs states that one of their
obligations is to register IP address usage properly, including contact
information needed for troubleshooting at all levels.

> its an interesting idea, but the above issues need some
> resolutions.
> 
> john brown
> speaking for himself
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ed Allen Smith [mailto:easmith at beatrice.rutgers.edu] 
> > Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 3:10 PM
> > To: john at chagres.net
> > Cc: chris at telespan.co.uk; ppml at arin.net
> > Subject: RE: [ppml] RIR's should have power to suspend 
> > Member's registration in specified circumstances
> > 
> > 
> > In message <000a01c27c64$2e4e4350$f9ecdfd8 at laptoy> (on 25 
> > October 2002 14:21:52 -0600), john at chagres.net (John M. Brown) wrote:
> > > what exactly would this solve?
> > 
> > They don't have the IP addresses in question anymore; 
> > allocate them to another party. There are a _large_ number of 
> > IP addresses that could be freed up if this policy were put 
> > into effect, making a massive improvement in the current IP 
> > address shortage.
> > 
> > 	-Allen
> > 
> > > there data is removed from the whois ??
> > > 
> > > The RIR's have no control over routing tables, and we don't 
> > want them 
> > > to.
> > >
> > > john brown
> > > speaking for himself
> > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-ppml at arin.net [mailto:owner-ppml at arin.net] On
> > > > Behalf Of Chris Jones
> > > > Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 2:09 PM
> > > > To: ppml at arin.net
> > > > Subject: [ppml] RIR's should have power to suspend Member's 
> > > > registration in specified circumstances
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > I make use of the details contained in the RIR registry
> > > > databases to trace the source of spam emails. While the 
> > > > majority of members do maintain their registration details 
> > > > accurately, there are some who do not. In the way of these 
> > > > things, most of the latter are where some of the most regular 
> > > > spammers originate. Failure to communicate effectively is 
> > > > probably the worst offence any organisation or individual can 
> > > > be guilty of. Therefore, I am recommending, as an aggreived 
> > > > user of these inaccurate RIR records, that ARIN (and RIPE and 
> > > > APNIC) should be allowed to suspend any registrant who fails 
> > > > to amend within a specified period of time, their 
> > > > registration (together with all of their customers/users of 
> > > > course) to ensure consistent accuracy.
> > > > 
> > > > The proposed suspension should last until the member has
> > > > corrected the errant details or until such shorter period of 
> > > > time that the RIR allows. This proposal would have the 
> > > > benefit of persuading these ISP's to police their customers 
> > > > use of the internet mail system more effectively.
> > > > --
> > > > From
> > > > Chris Jones
> > > > mailto: chris at telespan.co.uk
> > > > web: http://www.telespan.co.uk/
> > > > 
> > > > My PGP Key:-
> > > > RSA 2048/1024     Key ID:  0x2B1F1593
> > > > Fingerprint:  B073 FE31 0A6A 6BD6 C4DB  750D 2B30 D0E7 2B1F 1593
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Allen Smith			http://cesario.rutgers.edu/easmith/
> > September 11, 2001		A Day That Shall Live In Infamy II
> > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little 
> > temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - 
> > Benjamin Franklin
> > 
> 

-- 
Allen Smith			http://cesario.rutgers.edu/easmith/
September 11, 2001		A Day That Shall Live In Infamy II
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin