[arin-discuss] fee waivers

Owen DeLong owen at delong.com
Wed Jun 23 13:44:11 EDT 2010 

On Jun 23, 2010, at 6:08 AM, Brian Johnson wrote:

> OK. So you are getting a better deal than any ISP, even with the
> discount we get for a short period. What is your complaint again?
> 
> Let's say I got a small IPv6 allocation in '08:
> 
> 				 You		 Me
> ---------------------------------------------
> Initial Allocation 	1250		 225
> Yr 2 Renewal		 100		 562.50
> Yr 3 Renewal		 100		1125
> Yr 4 Renewal		 100		1687.50
> ---------------------------------------------
> 3 year total		1450		2600
> 
Not necessarily...

First, that's a 4 year total, not a 3-year total for the ISP column.
The end user column would be 1550 for 4 years. So you're
not even comparing the same number of years in your table.

The three year totals would be:

1450 vs. 1912.50

Let's look at it a little closer:

Potential records in database:
ISP /32: 65,000+  (/48s)  or perhaps 16+Million (/56s) I'll use 65,000 to be conservative.
End user /48: 1

3 year total per record (ISP): <$0.03
3 year total per record (End User): $1,450

Oh, and, ARIN membership: ISP: $0 -- End User: $500/year.

Space with membership:

Initial:	ISP $225	EU $1750
Yr2:		ISP $562.5	EU $ 600
Yr3:		ISP $1125	EU $ 600

3 Yr. Total: ISP: $1912.5 EU: $2950

> And every year after this I will pay $2250 for my allocation, but you
> will only pay $100 for your assignment. Do you expect me to feel sorry
> for you or anyone in your situation?
> 
I'm seeing less reason to preserve the ISP fee waivers to be honest.

Owen

> I see no reason to modify the policy at all.
> 
> - Brian
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Aaron Wendel [mailto:aaron at wholesaleinternet.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 8:48 PM
>> To: Brian Johnson; arin-discuss at arin.net
>> Subject: RE: [arin-discuss] fee waivers
>> 
>> Of course.
>> 
>> Here is the section in the policy manual that deals with end users:
>> 
>> https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#four3
>> 
>> Make sure you meet the qualifications there.  Then refer to the fee
>> schedule.
>> 
>> https://www.arin.net/fees/fee_schedule.html
>> 
>> Scroll down past ISPs to end users and read the text before the fees.
>> 
>> And... back to the topic at hand, here is the current fee waiver for
>> initial
>> v6 allocations to ISPs.
>> 
>> https://www.arin.net/fees/fee_schedule.html#waivers
>> 
>> Aaron
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-
>> bounces at arin.net]
>> On Behalf Of Brian Johnson
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 8:13 PM
>> To: arin-discuss at arin.net
>> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] fee waivers
>> 
>> Aaron,
>> 
>> So maybe this is my misunderstanding, but I thought the fee was the
>> same
>> for the IPv6 as it is for IPv4 space... In fact it is
>> (https://www.arin.net/fees/fee_schedule.html). How do you only pay
> $100
>> when you have an allocation and the minimum charge for an allocation
> is
>> $1250/yr?
>> 
>> Is there a special way I can have my allocations for $100/yr. Where do
>> I
>> sign up? :)
>> 
>> - Brian
>> 
>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Aaron Wendel [mailto:aaron at wholesaleinternet.net]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 6:54 PM
>>> To: Brian Johnson; arin-discuss at arin.net
>>> Subject: RE: [arin-discuss] fee waivers
>>> 
>>> We do.  Got it a couple years ago when we first started up.  A
> member
>>> paid
>>> the initial fee then as well and I pull the $100 out of my pocket
>> every
>>> year
>>> to pay the ongoing ARIN Fees.
>>> 
>>> Again, this isn't about my situation specifically.  My bill is paid.
>>> This
>>> is about a barrier to entry for other end users that may not be able
>> or
>>> willing to pony up for a v6 allocation that they don't see as
>> "mission
>>> critical" at this point.
>>> 
>>> Whether they should or not is another debate but I really feel that
>> we
>>> need
>>> to look at any and all barriers to entry on the v6 side and see what
>> we
>>> can
>>> do to make it, if not a zero-sum game then at least less painful.
>>> 
>>> Aaron
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-
>>> bounces at arin.net]
>>> On Behalf Of Brian Johnson
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 6:31 PM
>>> To: arin-discuss at arin.net
>>> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] fee waivers
>>> 
>>> Do you have IPv4 space now? How are/were you paying that fee?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> - Brian
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-
>>>> bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Aaron Wendel
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 2:46 PM
>>>> To: arin-discuss at arin.net
>>>> Subject: [arin-discuss] fee waivers
>>>> 
>>>> As the operator of a small, free exchange point I was recently hit
>>> with
>>>> the
>>>> $1250 fee for an IPv6 allocation.  After several go arounds with
>> our
>>>> members
>>>> one of them stepped up to the plate and generously donated the fee
>> to
>>>> cover
>>>> it.  (Thanks HE!)
>>>> 
>>>> It made me think though.  Without this help we would not have gone
>> v6
>>>> or we
>>>> would have had to implement some work around: space from a member,
>>>> private
>>>> space, etc. that wouldn't have been optimum and may have been such
>> a
>>>> hassle
>>>> we would have just abandoned it.
>>>> 
>>>> It seems to me that it would be a good idea to extend the fee
>> waiver
>>>> ISPs
>>>> receive to end users for a time, on the current sliding scale, to
>>>> encourage
>>>> adoption of v6 by everyone, not just ISPs.  My fee has already
> been
>>>> paid but
>>>> if we're really trying to push adoption, incentives should be
>> applied
>>>> to
>>>> everyone on the same plane and not just a single "class".
>>>> 
>>>> Aaron
>>>> Kcix.net
>>>> 
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