[arin-discuss] [Fwd: Re: ipv6 technology supplier phone bank?]

Ted Mittelstaedt tedm at ipinc.net
Mon Sep 28 16:44:03 EDT 2009

Alex asked me to post his following reply:


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Re: [arin-discuss] ipv6 technology supplier phone bank?
Date: 	Mon, 28 Sep 2009 15:03:44 -0400
From: 	alex phillips <highspeedlink at gmail.com>
To: 	Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm at ipinc.net>
CC: 	Paul Vixie <vixie at vix.com>, arin-discuss at arin.net
<28E139F46D45AF49A31950F88C497458033F625F at E03MVZ2-UKDY.domain1.systemhost.net> 

<49698.1253800195 at nsa.vix.com>
<2b5e50900909240656p17ed1dbek61a40b2a7b53a7f at mail.gmail.com>
<28267.1253976115 at nsa.vix.com> <4AC10580.2070809 at ipinc.net>

I agree with all of the below however, those things we do now, free
email/spam etc,.. are to be competitive.  What is the competative
advantage to IPv6 services?  Several Companies in Winchester VA jumped
on this band wagon because the Government was going to make all Agencies
IPv6 complaint by 2008 by order of the OMB.   Both of these companies
failed at their venture into this.

None of my customers are saying, I am switch service providers because
you don't have IPv6.  It mostly, I don't have ESPN360 on my network and
that's why they leave if price was not the issue.

So I am more than happy to offer ipv6, I have the network connections
and hardware support right now but no one is asking.

I think we need to have services available that force the IPv6 service
to made available so that there is a competitive advantage to the ISP
who can support it.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm at ipinc.net
<mailto:tedm at ipinc.net>> wrote:

     Paul Vixie wrote:

             Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 09:56:15 -0400
             From: alex phillips <highspeedlink at gmail.com
             <mailto:highspeedlink at gmail.com>>

         (alex gave me permission to answer this private e-mail publically.)

             I must have missed the start of this thread but one of the
             issues we have
             seen in movement towards IPv6 was not only support but
             moreover the lack
             of profitable reasons to move to it.


     I disagree with this.  The ISP business is filled with things that
     providers -have- to do but are not profitable, in fact, completely
     the opposite.

     Take e-mail, for example.  Back in 1995 you could actually charge and
     get money from end-users for e-mail boxes.  Then hotmail came out with
     it's freebie boxes and customers started demanding that you include
     e-mail boxes at no extra charge with their service, as well as 
     you include a webmail interface.

     Then hotmail/google/etc came out with spam filtering that actually
     worked and now customers not only demand free mailboxes with their
     dialup/dsl/cable/whatever service, they want them spamfiltered as well
     as with a webinterface.

     The history of offering Internet service for money has long been one
     of hack, hack, hack at the bottom line - there's always someone around
     the corner ready to undercut you with some new scam.  In fact the only
     thing that stops it is when the guy around the corner outsmarts 
     for example when Juno/Netzero were offering free dialup
     accounts and discovered that they were being bled dry by customers who
     never paid them a dime, never were enticed to upgrade, and ran
     popup blocker software that blocked all the adverts that were paying
     for the service.  I have to admit I laughed until milk came out my
     nose when I saw that one come down.

     Well I don't know about other ISPs but I can speak for my own and we
     spend a bundle on mailserver hardware that runs lickity-split to keep
     up with the demands of the latest spamblock software - but we don't get
     jack from our customers for it.  We do it because if we didn't we
     wouldn't have no customers.

     IPv6 is just the latest thing that ISPs are going to have to do that
     is going to cost more money, and deliver nothing in exchange. Internet
     service has changed over the last 15 years from being a specialty
     industry that you could charge a nice fat margin on, to a commodity
     industry that your margins are razor-thin on, and you only survive
     through volume.  A lot of people, like Alex, and like myself as well,
     clearly remember the old days and what it used to be like, and while
     it's fun to sit around electronically swapping stories about the
     good old days when we could get $20 a month for a 28.8 kilobit
     dialup connection, and run a modem bank on a T1 in your garage
     that generated sales of $100K a year for essentially having a
     huge amount of fun playing with networking toys, the sooner that we
     all grow up and recognize that those days are gone, and that our
     industry is all grown up now, the sooner we can get off our collective
     butts, stop whining that some new regulations are going to cost us
     money, and get the IPv6 deployment finished and behind us!

     Anyone who wants to bitch and moan about the cost of IPv6 can go
     take a trip and talk to the operators of your typical coal-fired
     electrical power plant about how their going to meet the new carbon
     cap regulations while still supplying power at the regulated rate
     that the local PUC's have set for them.  Every other business in
     every other
     industry has to deal with expenses that they never asked for that
     the community lays on them, now grow up and take it like a man!
     (that's meant figuratively, ladies :-)


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Alex Phillips
General Manager

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