[arin-discuss] ARIN billing practice

Michael Hasse mhasse at itwerx.net
Tue Sep 22 12:51:01 EDT 2009

Been watching the discussion for a bit and thought I'd add 2c to the  
    It seems that the problem revolves around:
	- virtually anonymous requests that churn and burn IP blocks.
    	- how to slow/prevent this without adding an onerous  
administrative burden to ARIN

    So here's a possible solution-set:
	- collect, confirm and retain as much information about netblock  
users as possible, (including archive records of old info if somebody  
changes it), with a "churn" flag that is set for some number of years  
whenever a netblock is returned
	- cross-reference all information for AS# and netblock requests  
against the list above and if there is even a single match (POC, tel#,  
address, whatever...) then:
		- flag for review/reject
		- put on probation
		- delay
		- any/all of these or other deleterious actions
	- require actual granting of a new AS# (only) to be received by  
applicant at an actual business address (no residential, no POB)
	- prevent carpet-bombing of the above and defray ARIN overhead by  
charging a reasonable application fee for each submission ($200?)

    The issue will never be completely eliminated but this should set  
the bar a lot higher and force spammers to behave more like legitimate  
businesses with A - minimal additional ARIN admin overhead, and B -  
little change to existing process for legitimate customers.


Michael Hasse

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On Sep 22, 2009, at 9:03 AM, Jon Radel wrote:

Alex Ryu wrote:
> Also, if somebody is trying to setup bogus company, probably he/she  
> can setup bogus company registered in local TAX authority any way  
> using proxy person or some people, who will be much thankful to get  
> some money out of their name or identity.

Thinking back to my experience forming a Virginia corporation, running  
it for a bit, and then killing it off, I'd say that in Virginia (since  
we've already come up in this discussion) if you've got around $150  
and the patience to fill out a couple of forms (they're really short)  
you can have a corporation, EIN (tax id from the IRS), and business  
license with nobody much caring who the officers are (if anybody who  
actually exists even) or what you do.  If you mess up big time, then,  
yes the authorities start to care and have penalties for various  
infractions, but they most certainly don't check anything ahead of  
time.  If you start to sell shares publicly, then, yes, some new  
agencies that actual take a look at you enter the picture.  But  
frankly, if you don't make waves and remember to file a tax return  
every year, nobody looks at your little private corporation.

Oh, and these days I'm the treasurer of a perfectly legitimate non- 
profit organization that doesn't need a business license and  
consequently doesn't have one, though we do have an EIN.

So, sorry, but I quite agree that verification of EIN and business  
license does little other than filter out applications with completely  
fictional information;  I've always found the ARIN paperwork harder to  
fill out than the corporation commission or EIN request forms, so I'm  
not sure this represents a useful barrier.

In any case, without a tight definition of what "bogus company"  
actually means, I don't see this becoming actionable policy.

--Jon Radel
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